Goal: Net Zero - Companies Suggesting Widely Varying kW Systems

[J.P.M.]

Wow ... does solar make economic sense when the grid electricity price is so low? Of course if the Florida utilities are like the ones in California the price won't stay low for long.

That's part of what the OP needs to determine after education, and then applying what's learned to their particular circumstances as best suits their lifestyle and goals.

Real education in things solar tends to remove the rose colored glasses view and some of the romance of alternate energy, but it does offer a path to save money and avoid getting screwed quite so badly from conmen and their treehugger shills who live off the solar ignorance of their marks.

[solardreamer]

That's part of what the OP needs to determine after education, and then applying what's learned to their particular circumstances as best suits their lifestyle and goals.

Real education in things solar tends to remove the rose colored glasses view and some of the romance of alternate energy, but it does offer a path to save money and avoid getting screwed quite so badly from conmen and their treehugger shills who live off the solar ignorance of their marks.

That's certainly true for each individual. What I was wondering is what rough percentage of solar owners decided to go solar even with low grid electricity price and for what economic reasons. I am guessing it's not a high percentage.

[DanKegel]

Vendor ESA had the most power for the least spend? Tempting.

It's not strange to have bids with a 20% range of capacities; it's hard to know the 'right' size for a system, so quotes are going to be based on a fuzzy guess of how big a system you need.

Solaredge inverters with optimizers squeeze more power out of the panels than string inverters do during times when some panels are shaded.
They don't really have any downside other than maybe being a little more expensive than a string inverter.
(In theory, the optimizer module attached to each panel could add reliability problems, but I think current solaredge equipment is quite reliable. I have Solaredge on mine and it's fine (though if

I haven't used Hyundai panels (I used Mitsubishi and LG on my two systems), but solar panels are rather a commodity these days, and I suspect Hyundai's are fine.

To recap, you've said:
- live in central florida
- average electricity bill $155/month
- average electricity use 1186 kWh/month
- your goal is to save money
- you're aware of the [federal] tax credit

Given your goal, you should probably pick the system with the shortest payback time, and as JPM says, that looks like ESA's bid.
You should figure out the payback time more accurately before you sign, though.

Questions:
- Do you know where your power goes, and have you worked to reduce waste, e.g. by installing LEDs, checking appliances / AC to see if they're using too much power, etc.?
- What utility are you on, and what's their net metering policy and minimum charge per month?
- Does vendor ESA look trustworthy, i.e. know anybody who's used them and were happy (and still have panels attached to roof after a storm)?
- Have you found and do you understand all the incentives available? (Beyond the federal one, there might be state/local/utility ones.)
- What kind of loan would you use, and do you understand the terms?

Good luck!

[solardreamer]

The greatest asset of solar power is power when the grid is down, each month.

What kind of grid-interactive inverter/charger battery backup system do you have? It was one of the original reasons for considering solar but soon found out utilities do not allow typical grid-tied solar system to be active when the grid is down. For my system, additional AC coupled inverter/charger battery backup system would be required to do that which does not make economic sense for my situation (very stable grid).

[J.P.M.]

That's certainly true for each individual. What I was wondering is what rough percentage of solar owners decided to go solar even with low grid electricity price and for what economic reasons. I am guessing it's not a high percentage.

Follow the money.

[organic farmer]

What kind of grid-interactive inverter/charger battery backup system do you have? It was one of the original reasons for considering solar but soon found out utilities do not allow typical grid-tied solar system to be active when the grid is down. For my system, additional AC coupled inverter/charger battery backup system would be required to do that which does not make economic sense for my situation (very stable grid).

Our 'Electrical Panel' is a 'Four Star Solar Power Center' from http://www.wholesalesolar.com

[J.P.M.]

That depends on how many days each month you expect the grid to be available.

Here on the East Coast you should expect the grid to be up and functional 20 days of every month. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

The greatest asset of solar power is power when the grid is down, each month.

When I lived back east in central NYS, the last time the grid failed me for more than a few hours was in 1965 during the great northeast blackout.

You seem to live in an area that has unusually frequent and unusually long outages of the type most folks, for whatever reason, would not tolerate. I believe your situation is rather unusual.

My guess is most of the rest of the U.S. probably has better grid reliability than you do to the extent it's not a major consideration in PV system design.

[solardreamer]

Our 'Electrical Panel' is a 'Four Star Solar Power Center' from http://www.wholesalesolar.com

Thanks, good to know someone who actually bought from Wholesale Solar. It looks like you have an off-grid system. I've looked at Wholesale Solar before for their AC coupled offerings (https://www.wholesalesolar.com/ac-coupling) which look interesting but they are not cheap.

[solardreamer]

Our 'Electrical Panel' is a 'Four Star Solar Power Center' from http://www.wholesalesolar.com

Thanks, good to know someone who actually bought from them. It looks like you have an off-grid system. I have looked at them before for their AC coupled offerings which are interesting but not cheap.

[max2k]

That depends on how many days each month you expect the grid to be available.

Here on the East Coast you should expect the grid to be up and functional 20 days of every month. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

The greatest asset of solar power is power when the grid is down, each month.

Some place you live ... Wouldn't be more cost efficient to fix grid issues? I mean if it's standalone house in the middle of some wilderness then may be but still- if there's power line it is connected somewhere if that somewhere has bad wiring / switch it would be much more standard exercise to fix that than to come up with reliable off the grid solution. If living off the grid is your hobby then costs are usually not a concern as fun component outweighs almost everything

[bcroe]

In this area 'net-zero' usually means a house that powers itself, heats / cools itself without consuming any outside energy. [no grid power, no fuel consumption].

A couple of extremely efficient "demo" houses have been built in the county, which require a minimum of
heat in the N ILL winters. But not net zero. With a solar grid tie here, an actual energy surplus was
created for far less $ investment, with a pretty average house. Bruce Roe

[SunEagle]

Wow ... does solar make economic sense when the grid electricity price is so low? Of course if the Florida utilities are like the ones in California the price won't stay low for long.

It has been pretty low here in Florida for over 10 years. I can't say the same for CA rates.

[SunEagle]

Some place you live ... Wouldn't be more cost efficient to fix grid issues? I mean if it's standalone house in the middle of some wilderness then may be but still- if there's power line it is connected somewhere if that somewhere has bad wiring / switch it would be much more standard exercise to fix that than to come up with reliable off the grid solution. If living off the grid is your hobby then costs are usually not a concern as fun component outweighs almost everything

It is a balance.

Organic farmer gets to live in what he describes as paradise. Unfortunately the grid is not as complete there as in other States. But you have to weigh the advantages to the disadvantages.

I respect his decision to live where he lives and be happy with the lifestyle of an intermittent grid.

[organic farmer]

It is a balance.

Organic farmer gets to live in what he describes as paradise. Unfortunately the grid is not as complete there as in other States. But you have to weigh the advantages to the disadvantages.

I respect his decision to live where he lives and be happy with the lifestyle of an intermittent grid.

Thank you.

I served 20 years Active Duty on subs. For the last half of it, my biggest motivation was that we were going to build a homestead out in the woods after I retired [I hated living underwater]. After I retired we bought 150 acres and I built our house. Kind of re-invented myself as an organic farmer. We have been here 12 years so far. It has been a big learning curve. I am glad that I did this before I got so old that my body could not physically take it any more. I am in a couple Farmer's Markets, and we are pretty active with groups that help young farmers to get started.

The whole solar power thing goes along with the image well to keep it a complete package.

Solar power would never be economic sense if I lived in a suburb. We know a lot of people now though who live in townships where grid power has never been extended into. So it is their only option for power.

[Ward L]

When we moved to SoCal we decided to put in solar ASAP. We were going to add a pool and but when I estimated the power cost of the pool it was so high I didn't want to put in a pool. Wife suggested solar. Since we had no history of use, I put in the most solar SoCal Edison would allow which was 2 times the square footage of the house. The first year before we had the pool, we produced a lot more electricity than we consumed. Edison sent us a $400 check for the excess power, which worked out to about 4.5 cents/kWh. We just finished the 3rd Relevant Period of our Net Metering Agreement. The Relevant Period is the year from the startup date of your panels. This time Edison sent a check for almost $100 for the excess power, which was at 6.5 cents/kWh. I have a spreadsheet to track my monthly consumption and exports. My total Edison electricity bills added up to -$28 last year. Yes, Edison sent me more money than I sent them. I have tracked what would have been my power bills each month without solar and my annual electrical cost would have been $3,450. My solar panels saved me about $3,480 last year. There were two months (December & January) where I imported more electricity than I produced. My panels cost $39,513 and after the tax credit the net cost was $27,659. That is about an 8 year payback or about 9% interest on my solar panels. The 9% does not consider the cost of capital, but since I'm getting about 1% on my cash, OK, call it an 8% ROR on the panels. I look at it like a tax free bond investment paying 8% which is right up there with one of my best, almost risk free, investments. Now wife wants a Tesla 3, so the larger load will eliminate my excess power generation over the year. This worked for me because of the climate and utility rates. The climate is sunny with moderate temperatures. I would call my system pretty close to net zero electricity cost. I would have had a higher ROR by installing a smaller system, but missed the downside of long term performance decline or the opportunity for extra capacity for a Tesla.