4.6KW system in San Diego - got the quotes now have to pull the trigger

[J.P.M.]

Thanks for the posts everyone.. We got 7 bids on EnergySage, and also had about 5 other top rated "local" yelp contractors give us bids. In the end, we ended up pulling the trigger on the Sunpower Equinox system with 327 watt panels. We got them down to $3.30/watt so it just made sense from all angles, and their financing as the most competitive with the 2.99 rate and letting you pay the tax credit payment for 18 months same as cash... So all was a win-win. We did get some cheaper quotes, but we ended up going with Sunpower because their price wasn't too far off from the other companies, and since we financed our system, the "financed cost" with the Sunpower loan actually made the price pretty much the same as the cheaper companies whose lenders also had their own financing fees. Will keep everyone posted on how the install goes and how the new system performs.

Is that $3.30 before or after tax credit ? If before, who's the vendor ? All the other potential customers in San Diego county will want to know as that's about a buck/Watt less than other S.P. quotes. Other vendors may as well close up shop or drop tp $2.50/Watt or so. $3.30 /Watt is fairly unbelievable for S.P. around here.

[djrobsd]

JPM, that is before the tax credit. Gets even better after. The company I went with is well known in the area and they are a master dealer for SP been in business for 15 years.

i was told by my sales rep that sunpower has been aggressively re pricing their products in the past year and running promotional pricing on specific models of panels. Let's just hope they aren't getting too aggressive. Fortunately they are backed by a huge oil company so that's always a good sign of financial stability.

The panel pricing is no different then any other solar
manufacuter. I was quoted 5 different models of LG panels for my roof from 5 different companies. All of them were probably what was on sale or close out special from Lg. One dealer even told me he bought several palettes of them because the deal was too hard to pass up.

[J.P.M.]

JPM, that is before the tax credit. Gets even better after. The company I went with is well known in the area and they are a master dealer for SP been in business for 15 years.

i was told by my sales rep that sunpower has been aggressively re pricing their products in the past year and running promotional pricing on specific models of panels. Let's just hope they aren't getting too aggressive. Fortunately they are backed by a huge oil company so that's always a good sign of financial stability.

The panel pricing is no different then any other solar
manufacuter. I was quoted 5 different models of LG panels for my roof from 5 different companies. All of them were probably what was on sale or close out special from Lg. One dealer even told me he bought several palettes of them because the deal was too hard to pass up.

Thanx for the reply.

After my post, I saw an ad from that outfit but have no experience w/them with respect to having seen their work up close/personal. I tend to be of a skeptical nature and kind of wonder if they quote a bare bones price, sort of bait/switch, and build job profit on what they don't mention in the ad but winds up being needed on most jobs.

I'm aware of S.P's ownership situation having owned a fair amount (for me anyway) of their stock until about 18 months ago. That stock appreciation paid for my S.P. array about 10X. At the time, I paid $4.50/Watt and that was the lowest price in CA up to that time for a S.P. paneled array (08/2013) according to the CSI database.LG, etc. were running about $3.50/Watt at the time.

Maybe Sunpower finally got the massage that at least some of the buying public has figured out that panels are a commodity. Or, maybe they're clearing inventory for a quantum change in product efficiency or business model. Or, a fire sale ? Or ?? Whatever the reason, S.P., in spite of the pricng is good quality stuff and will probably give good service for a long time.

As far as what a sales rep tells me, and having been one in a different line of work a long time ago for about 10 yrs. if I believe any of it, I deserve what I get. It's just business.

Caveat Emptor.

[djrobsd]

Thanx for the reply.

After my post, I saw an ad from that outfit but have no experience w/them with respect to having seen their work up close/personal. I tend to be of a skeptical nature and kind of wonder if they quote a bare bones price, sort of bait/switch, and build job profit on what they don't mention in the ad but winds up being needed on most jobs.

I'm aware of S.P's ownership situation having owned a fair amount (for me anyway) of their stock until about 18 months ago. That stock appreciation paid for my S.P. array about 10X. At the time, I paid $4.50/Watt and that was the lowest price in CA up to that time for a S.P. paneled array (08/2013) according to the CSI database.LG, etc. were running about $3.50/Watt at the time.

Maybe Sunpower finally got the massage that at least some of the buying public has figured out that panels are a commodity. Or, maybe they're clearing inventory for a quantum change in product efficiency or business model. Or, a fire sale ? Or ?? Whatever the reason, S.P., in spite of the pricng is good quality stuff and will probably give good service for a long time.

As far as what a sales rep tells me, and having been one in a different line of work a long time ago for about 10 yrs. if I believe any of it, I deserve what I get. It's just business.

Caveat Emptor.

And now for another update, you're going to love this. The SP dealer we went with was one of the largest in San Diego at one time, but as the competition heated up and business slowed, they laid off quite a few people and moved to a smaller facility (all this happened right before we signed the contract with them, but I didn't find any of this out until after the fact when I questioned one of their workers that came out to our house). The owner is very loyal to his original people, some have been there for over a decade and he has fought hard to keep their jobs, even while having to slim down the business a bit. Smart business move if you ask me. Maybe with the slimmer size they can regroup and find their way again. Anyway, here's what happened to our install.

Our sales person had mentioned that we could do a ballasted install if we were concerned about holes being poked in our brand new roof. We have a 1950 home with a flat roof, very Palm Springs style. We agreed that would be the best way to do the job. Only a couple days after I signed the loan papers, the installers were calling and saying they had a cancellation and asking if they could come install the system in 2 days. I was SHOCKED. (Not now though, makes sense if their business has slowed down that they would be able to install so quickly). Sure, why not. They came out, and had the entire system installed in a day. Did an excellent job on the install, painted the conduit to match my house, very clean wiring, the only gripe I had was the city (or maybe state) mandated extra grounding wire that they had to run to a plumbing pipe. I told them to run it to the copper pipe on the tankless water heater next to the sub panel. He didn't do that.. Lack of communication. Ok, so I have a little telephone wire sized wire stapled to the front of my house going to the hose bib. Not exactly what I wanted, but it was at least painted to match the house, so it's not too visible. Whatever. Anyway, aside from that everything else was very clean and well laid out, I was very happy with the quality of the install job. Then the problems started with the city permit process...

Because they were doing a ballasted install, apparently it required a structural evaluation to make sure my roof could support the weight of the ballasts. They didn't do this before install.. HUH? What?! That seems a little bit off to me. Wouldn't you want to make sure a customers roof could support the weight before installing it? Anyway, they told me there would be delays in the approval due to the extra time to complete the structural study and then have the city structural engineer review it. Several weeks went by and all I heard were crickets. Eventually emails did not go returned, so I was getting worried, I then found out my project manager had "left the company", and someone else would get back to me. In the meantime, I called the city to get a status. Turns out they were WAITING for the solar installer to get some additional info back to them on the plans. UGH. So I called the solar company back and asked to speak to the owner.. on vacation, but we'll have one of our managers call you back. Manager calls me about half an hour later, apologizes says that he just got off the phone with the city and they have a counter appointment on Monday and should have everything cleared up and inspection scheduled by Thursday.. Well, at least in that regard they were good on their word. Inspection happened, got the PTO from SDG&E less then 24 hours after approval from the city!

System has been on now for over a week and working beautiful. I have a 4.0KW CEC rated system, and yesterday we peaked out at 3.93. Not too shabby. The system turns on around 6:50AM and off around the same time right now. Those micro inverters really shine when it comes to earlier and later power production. We got 28.7KWH of clean solar power yesterday from our 14 Sunpower 327 panels! So despite the fact that we had to wait a couple months after install for it to be turned on, we are very happy with the system. Now let's just see if the owner pays our power bills as promised for the extra time it took getting the approvals as he promised he would do.

[J.P.M.]

And now for another update, you're going to love this. The SP dealer we went with was one of the largest in San Diego at one time, but as the competition heated up and business slowed, they laid off quite a few people and moved to a smaller facility (all this happened right before we signed the contract with them, but I didn't find any of this out until after the fact when I questioned one of their workers that came out to our house). The owner is very loyal to his original people, some have been there for over a decade and he has fought hard to keep their jobs, even while having to slim down the business a bit. Smart business move if you ask me. Maybe with the slimmer size they can regroup and find their way again. Anyway, here's what happened to our install.

Our sales person had mentioned that we could do a ballasted install if we were concerned about holes being poked in our brand new roof. We have a 1950 home with a flat roof, very Palm Springs style. We agreed that would be the best way to do the job. Only a couple days after I signed the loan papers, the installers were calling and saying they had a cancellation and asking if they could come install the system in 2 days. I was SHOCKED. (Not now though, makes sense if their business has slowed down that they would be able to install so quickly). Sure, why not. They came out, and had the entire system installed in a day. Did an excellent job on the install, painted the conduit to match my house, very clean wiring, the only gripe I had was the city (or maybe state) mandated extra grounding wire that they had to run to a plumbing pipe. I told them to run it to the copper pipe on the tankless water heater next to the sub panel. He didn't do that.. Lack of communication. Ok, so I have a little telephone wire sized wire stapled to the front of my house going to the hose bib. Not exactly what I wanted, but it was at least painted to match the house, so it's not too visible. Whatever. Anyway, aside from that everything else was very clean and well laid out, I was very happy with the quality of the install job. Then the problems started with the city permit process...

Because they were doing a ballasted install, apparently it required a structural evaluation to make sure my roof could support the weight of the ballasts. They didn't do this before install.. HUH? What?! That seems a little bit off to me. Wouldn't you want to make sure a customers roof could support the weight before installing it? Anyway, they told me there would be delays in the approval due to the extra time to complete the structural study and then have the city structural engineer review it. Several weeks went by and all I heard were crickets. Eventually emails did not go returned, so I was getting worried, I then found out my project manager had "left the company", and someone else would get back to me. In the meantime, I called the city to get a status. Turns out they were WAITING for the solar installer to get some additional info back to them on the plans. UGH. So I called the solar company back and asked to speak to the owner.. on vacation, but we'll have one of our managers call you back. Manager calls me about half an hour later, apologizes says that he just got off the phone with the city and they have a counter appointment on Monday and should have everything cleared up and inspection scheduled by Thursday.. Well, at least in that regard they were good on their word. Inspection happened, got the PTO from SDG&E less then 24 hours after approval from the city!

System has been on now for over a week and working beautiful. I have a 4.0KW CEC rated system, and yesterday we peaked out at 3.93. Not too shabby. The system turns on around 6:50AM and off around the same time right now. Those micro inverters really shine when it comes to earlier and later power production. We got 28.7KWH of clean solar power yesterday from our 14 Sunpower 327 panels! So despite the fact that we had to wait a couple months after install for it to be turned on, we are very happy with the system. Now let's just see if the owner pays our power bills as promised for the extra time it took getting the approvals as he promised he would do.

Thanx for the update. Yesterday's output sounds about right ( mine was 31.58 kWh w/ ~ 4 % shading loss) on 16 X 327 S.P.'s . That grounding sounds a bit funky. Who was the vendor ?

[max2k]

... Ok, so I have a little telephone wire sized wire stapled to the front of my house going to the hose bib....

curious- where the other end of that wire is connected to and is it isolated or just bare copper? Not sure telephone sized wire has a place in 4 kW system, hopefully actual gauge is greater.

Sounds like they required DC GEC wire. If it comes from the roof connecting #6 there to the house bib I don't think it's up to code neither in terms of gauge nor connection place. Or is it implementation of the infamous 690.47(D)? In that case it is designed to evaporate during lightning strike so all is well.