Where to start - converting from generator/UPS to more reasonable solar / powerwall?

[Sunking]

I bet the family of this family wishes there was no such thing as a gasoline generator.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...xide/98957674/

OK you want to talk about all the families that have lost their homes to fire solar panel started. Or how about multi-million dollar companies. All technologies come with death and property damage. Today Google, Facebook, Apple, and cell phones kill thousands of people. Cell phones are now the number one cause of death in the age group of 14 to 35 year olds. Cell phones bumped drunk driving to #2. You cannot put the Genie back in the bottle. You surrender your right to privacy the day you Google, Facebook or get a cell phone. .

[adoublee]

Putting all my sarcasm aside, I'd like to see a thread documenting deaths associated with PV installs.

Don't need one for gensets because this is not gensettalk.com. But clearly PORTABLE gensets have their risks:

"In December 2013, the CPSC released a then-new agency report noting that between 1999 and 2012, there were 931 non-fire-related deaths from carbon monoxide inhalation

[SunEagle]

Putting all my sarcasm aside, I'd like to see a thread documenting deaths associated with PV installs.

Don't need one for gensets because this is not gensettalk.com. But clearly PORTABLE gensets have their risks:

"In December 2013, the CPSC released a then-new agency report noting that between 1999 and 2012, there were 931 non-fire-related deaths from carbon monoxide inhalation

Any type of death due to a senseless act is very sad. Especially if it was preventable. If it wasn't the genset it could have been the oven or a portable heater that was put too close to something combustible.
Deaths due to fires happen every year even after warnings are placed on the equipment or broadcasted to the public.

I don't know how to keep everyone safe. I do know that even if that family had a battery system to provide power there is always a chance some other item could have caused a fire like that hover board did just recently which not only killed a small child but a first repsonder that was killed in an accident while heading to the fire.

Both deaths could have been prevented if that item was not available for sale or was charged in a different manor.

We can pick and choose events from all types of technologies and make a point that this or that is bad but in the end no technology is totally safe.

[Sunking]

We can pick and choose events from all types of technologies and make a point that this or that is bad but in the end no technology is totally safe.

Right you are. Who would have guessed cell phones kill more than 10,000 people every year. Most of them young adults and teenagers.

[J.P.M.]

Right you are. Who would have guessed cell phones kill more than 10,000 people every year. Most of them young adults and teenagers.

While I'd mostly agree with the number, I'd suggest that part of that is due to the perhaps unintended or unconsidered consequences of combining technologies (vehicles and cell phones), although I keep getting more of an urge to bitch slap the palm zombies that seem to walk into me more than I'd like.

Good thing brain deaths don't count in that 10,000 number. If so, it would be in the millions by my reckoning.

[Sunking]

While I'd mostly agree with the number, I'd suggest that part of that is due to the perhaps unintended or unconsidered consequences of combining technologies (vehicles and cell phones), although I keep getting more of an urge to bitch slap the palm zombies that seem to walk into me more than I'd like..

The numbers are easy to come up with. Cell phones surpassed Drunk Driving as the number uno killer in auto accidents. Add in pedestrians walking in front of busses or over a cliff and it goes higher. Not my numbers NTSB. One person killed every 56 seconds by a cell phone compared to one person every 58 seconds drunk. Make me wonder how many accidents not counted as fatalities. Also makes me wonder what the birth rate is.

Hell cell phones have killed more men and women than we lost in Vietnam and every war since then. Ten years from now will be more lost than all wars since WW-II. Well that is if WW-III has not already started. That will trim the world population by 1/4.

[J.P.M.]

The numbers are easy to come up with. Cell phones surpassed Drunk Driving as the number uno killer in auto accidents. Add in pedestrians walking in front of busses or over a cliff and it goes higher. Not my numbers NTSB. One person killed every 56 seconds by a cell phone compared to one person every 58 seconds drunk. Make me wonder how many accidents not counted as fatalities. Also makes me wonder what the birth rate is.

Hell cell phones have killed more men and women than we lost in Vietnam and every war since then. Ten years from now will be more lost than all wars since WW-II. Well that is if WW-III has not already started. That will trim the world population by 1/4.

Sure am glad I don't own one of those widow makers. People who know me continue to claim I'll die if I don't get one.

That outcome seems somewhat at odds with the NTSB #'s. Go figure.

[adoublee]

Cell phones surpassed Drunk Driving as the number uno killer in auto accidents.

Steering wheels beat cell phones as the number one killer. Wouldn't catch me with one of those widow makers in my hands.

[Sunking]

Steering wheels beat cell phones as the number one killer. Wouldn't catch me with one of those widow makers in my hands.

Steering wheels do not cause the accident.

[ButchDeal]

Steering wheels do not cause the accident.

drivers do. When you ride a bike in city traffic you get pretty good at noticing in attentive drivers pretty easily. I try to put as much distance and if possible another car between me and the questionable drivers.

I have seen drivers reading the news paper, cell phones, books, etc in heavy highway rush hour traffic. Even once saw a woman half out of the drivers seat adjusting something with a kid in a child seat in the back while another child in the front passenger seat handled the wheel. She was putting both kids lives, other drivers and more importantly MY life at risk to do whatever the stupid **** she couldn't be bothered to pull over to do.

[Sunking]

drivers do.

No argument from me.

[azdave]

Welcome to "CellPhoneDangerTalk.com". Are we done arguing about genset backup vs solar backup?

[J.P.M.]

Welcome to "CellPhoneDangerTalk.com". Are we done arguing about genset backup vs solar backup?

OK, for reliability in the case of power outages, get a fossil fueled generator. Noisy, not usually cost effective for capacity factor depending on # of outages, but there when needed, sizing is relatively straight forward and familiar for loads and batteries, and the lights will usually stay on.

PV is quieter and doesn't have the smells. If grid tied w/central inverter equipped w/emergency backup (For example, what SMA calls "SPS" = Secure Power Supply) w/out storage, such systems usually have time of use and output limitations of <= ~ 2kw during mid day if the sun shines. If off grid w/storage, a moot point.

Hybrid on grid w/ battery vs. on grid only cost and hassle differences are probably greater than fossil fuel emergency generation..

Both systems have +'s, -'s. If both systems used, the two are somewhat redundant with overlapping capabilities. but the lights will stay on, albeit at a higher cost. Neither system is ideal. Pay your money, take your choice, but there ain't no free lunch.

[Sunking]

Welcome to "CellPhoneDangerTalk.com". Are we done arguing about genset backup vs solar backup?

Well at least with a cell phone will save you a quarter on a pay phone so you can call someone that gives a crap when you are out of power. The cell tower still has power because it has a generator.

[SunEagle]

Well at least with a cell phone will save you a quarter on a pay phone so you can call someone that gives a crap when you are out of power. The cell tower still has power because it has a generator.

The last time I even looked for one and if you can find a pay phone it cost more than a quarter to use.