Where to start - converting from generator/UPS to more reasonable solar / powerwall?

[Sunking]

And as far as the solar goes, yeah probably not required, but if I won't need the generator anyway, might as well sell it and us the money to buy solar panels to save on energy.

So how does that work on cloudy days and night?

75 Kw generator for a 4 Kw load?

[adoublee]

But what I don't get is that some people still believe that a solar/battery system is cheaper to run as an Emergency backup power supply then a properly sized and designed fossil fueled generator.

I agree some are confused about cost differential, but it's not an apples to apples comparison. In theory one system is put to use daily and then is there if the grid is gone. The other is a resource that sits there being unused. One is loud and might stink, the other is silent and doesn't depend on outside fuel. If you have the money and enjoy the tech/elegance - there are many worse ways money could be spent.

[SunEagle]

I agree some are confused about cost differential, but it's not an apples to apples comparison. In theory one system is put to use daily and then is there if the grid is gone. The other is a resource that sits there being unused. One is loud and might stink, the other is silent and doesn't depend on outside fuel. If you have the money and enjoy the tech/elegance - there are many worse ways money could be spent.

While most of those that feel it is better to depend on solar and batteries instead of depending on an outside fuel source to provide their electricity, I say that the highest probability that will take down the grid for an extended period of time will probably be an event that will also take out most of the solar panels ability to recharge those batteries.

[2tall4economy]

While most of those that feel it is better to depend on solar and batteries instead of depending on an outside fuel source to provide their electricity, I say that the highest probability that will take down the grid for an extended period of time will probably be an event that will also take out most of the solar panels ability to recharge those batteries.

would be curious what such an event would be - something like volcanic action whereby the atmosphere gets solar blockage?

[bcroe]

would be curious what such an event would be - something like volcanic action whereby the atmosphere gets solar blockage?

Around here it might be a severe wind storm/tornado, big hail or big snow. An ice storm shut us down for a week. Bruce Roe

[Sunking]

would be curious what such an event would be - something like volcanic action whereby the atmosphere gets solar blockage?

Gone with the wind, hail storms, hurricanes, tornadoes, thunderstorms, ice storms, blizzards, wildfire, floods, and earthquakes.

[SunEagle]

would be curious what such an event would be - something like volcanic action whereby the atmosphere gets solar blockage?

Volcanic would be one type. Just about any weather related that produces winds or debris, ice storms, blizzards, floods, along with earthquakes all can severely damage the arrays to the point no longer producing enough to recharge a battery system. Some could be short term others much - much longer.

[Mike90250]

..........I say that the highest probability that will take down the grid for an extended period of time will probably be an event that will also take out most of the solar panels ability to recharge those batteries........

Hurricane, blows debris around, smashes the glass PV panels. Even 1 plastic flamingo can take out a row of panels at 60mph. Or ice storms, Wind that takes down power lines can also blow the panels off the roof, or blow ice/hail onto them. Or it could just be cloudy and panels produce nothing, like mine do for weeks in the winter,

[SunEagle]

Hurricane, blows debris around, smashes the glass PV panels. Even 1 plastic flamingo can take out a row of panels at 60mph. Or ice storms, Wind that takes down power lines can also blow the panels off the roof, or blow ice/hail onto them. Or it could just be cloudy and panels produce nothing, like mine do for weeks in the winter,

I am afraid that most people feel the lack of fuel for a generator is the weak link to an emergency power supply but fail to realize the weak link are the solar panels themselves.

It is what I call the lack of vertical thinking.

[Sunking]

I am afraid that most people feel the lack of fuel for a generator is the weak link to an emergency power supply but fail to realize the weak link are the solar panels themselves.

It is what I call the lack of vertical thinking.

Those same people lack Critical Thinking and Problem Solving skills. Something they quit teaching in school decades ago. Those same people think generators use gasoline.

[SunEagle]

Those same people lack Critical Thinking and Problem Solving skills. Something they quit teaching in school decades ago. Those same people think generators use gasoline.

I actually like the term Critical to vertical thinking. Seems it might be easier for some people to comprehend.

I have spent a lot of time learning to perform root cause analysis for problem solving at work that I try to stop "cliff jumping" at the "obvious" solution. So I find that I have to look outside the box at things that might be the real reasons that cause the problem.

It is amazing that once you get past someone's fears about something you can find the real reason of an issue.

[J.P.M.]

I actually like the term Critical to vertical thinking. Seems it might be easier for some people to comprehend.

I have spent a lot of time learning to perform root cause analysis for problem solving at work that I try to stop "cliff jumping" at the "obvious" solution. So I find that I have to look outside the box at things that might be the real reasons that cause the problem.

It is amazing that once you get past someone's fears about something you can find the real reason of an issue.

FWIW, a long time ago I thought I was ahead of the game when I (looking back, probably erroneously) figured and felt I had internalized thinking outside the box until one of my older mentors asked a simple and socratic question: Why not simply get rid of the box ? Seems to make more sense as I get older.

[SunEagle]

FWIW, a long time ago I thought I was ahead of the game when I (looking back, probably erroneously) figured and felt I had internalized thinking outside the box until one of my older mentors asked a simple and socratic question: Why not simply get rid of the box ? Seems to make more sense as I get older.

Well I would say that the "box" is the comfort zone for most people and they choose not to go outside of it for a lot of reasons. The first being fear as I mentioned above. Once you get past the fear of something you can accomplish a lot more because you can see more. Getting rid of the box would be akin to going naked which is not something a lot of people want to even think about.

[J.P.M.]

Well I would say that the "box" is the comfort zone for most people and they choose not to go outside of it for a lot of reasons. The first being fear as I mentioned above. Once you get past the fear of something you can accomplish a lot more because you can see more. Getting rid of the box would be akin to going naked which is not something a lot of people want to even think about.

And I'd suggest to their own self inflicted loss in the sense that fortune favors the bold (and, by my limited observation, slaughters the foolish and unprepared), both materially and intellectually. Interestingly (perhaps), your naked analogy describes what was often a characteristic of ancient (Greek) cynics before the word took a more modern meaning from the negative aspects of what today would likely be called an ascetic lifestyle.

But all this has little to do with the name over the door, so back to business for me.

[adoublee]

Those same people think generators use gasoline.

I bet the family of this family wishes there was no such thing as a gasoline generator.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2017/03/09/generator-indoors-poisoning-carbon-monoxide/98957674/