Neighbor experiencing glare, wants me to remove panels or he will take legal action

[inetdog]

Note to mods: I posted a reply to the Australian gent with two links in it; I remembered just as I clicked 'post' that the board admins prefer the http:// to be left off links, but the board software didn't allow me to see the post to edit it (there's a bug where after submitting, the page just says 'working' and doesn't respond to the 'edit' button, and opening the page in another window doesn't help because the post hasn't been approved yet). So, apologies, and please strip the http:// off those links if you like. Thanks!

No problem with those links. You just have to wait for moderation.

[zehndorfer]

A really interesting post. Thank you all!

Reflections from solar panels are often a problem that disturbs relations between neighbors. The main reason is, that there is no real official agreement or guideline on how long a glare may last, until it becomes an unreasonable nuisance. Germany and Austria are among the countries that have introduced a clear regulation on the issue. In those guidelines solar glare above 30 minutes per day or 30 hours a year are seen to have a considerable impact and should be reduced or avoided. But not only the duration of these immissions are to be considered, but also the fact from which point at the neighbors house the glare is observed. Is he disturbed in living room, kitchen etc., or is it only the garage?

In my experience anti-reflective coatings only have a very limited impact on the glare rating of a PV panel. Due to the fact that the sun has a really high luminous density, even a small share of this light is enough to cause disability glare (i.e. glaring that will reduce your visual performance and thus is much more than just a nuisance). An anti reflective coating might help to reduce reflections somewhat but it sill not help to avoid disability glare (and thus is no more than a cosmetic improvement of the problem).

A Solar Glare Assessment helps to determine the glaring hazard of any solar installation (already in the planning phase). When glaring at an already constructed solar plant occurs, a solar glare assessment can determine the exact duration of the glare over any given day during the year. It will also help to determine the optimal counter measures for glaring. This could be adjustment of the angles of the PV panels, re-layout of the PV field or the construction of non transparent fences. The effectiveness of these measures can also be determined by a Solar Glare Assessment.

[J.P.M.]

a really interesting post. Thank you all!

Reflections from solar panels are often a problem that disturbs relations between neighbors. The main reason is, that there is no real official agreement or guideline on how long a glare may last, until it becomes an unreasonable nuisance. Germany and austria are among the countries that have introduced a clear regulation on the issue. In those guidelines solar glare above 30 minutes per day or 30 hours a year are seen to have a considerable impact and should be reduced or avoided. But not only the duration of these immissions are to be considered, but also the fact from which point at the neighbors house the glare is observed. Is he disturbed in living room, kitchen etc., or is it only the garage?

In my experience anti-reflective coatings only have a very limited impact on the glare rating of a pv panel. Due to the fact that the sun has a really high luminous density, even a small share of this light is enough to cause disability glare (i.e. Glaring that will reduce your visual performance and thus is much more than just a nuisance). An anti reflective coating might help to reduce reflections somewhat but it sill not help to avoid disability glare (and thus is no more than a cosmetic improvement of the problem).

A solar glare assessment helps to determine the glaring hazard of any solar installation (already in the planning phase). When glaring at an already constructed solar plant occurs, a solar glare assessment can determine the exact duration of the glare over any given day during the year. It will also help to determine the optimal counter measures for glaring. This could be adjustment of the angles of the pv panels, re-layout of the pv field or the construction of non transparent fences. The effectiveness of these measures can also be determined by a solar glare assessment.

spam !

[azdave]

Glare you say? All these new glass and chrome building lined up next to a large lake with a major freeway running along the opposite side of the lake was an idiotic decision.

Can I get them to tear down these buildings due to the excessive glare? I doesn't help we are in one of the sunniest areas of the country. I need welding goggles to drive home some afternoons!

[solar pete]

You think.

Nuke the SOB.

Howdy, I edited a bit out, but some of the post relates somewhat to the OP, cheers.

[Sunking]

Howdy, I edited a bit out, but some of the post relates somewhat to the OP, cheers.

If you are good with it. I am in love with it.

[J.P.M.]

Glare you say? All these new glass and chrome building lined up next to a large lake with a major freeway running along the opposite side of the lake was an idiotic decision.

Can I get them to tear down these buildings due to the excessive glare? I doesn't help we are in one of the sunniest areas of the country. I need welding goggles to drive home some afternoons!

From the FWIW Dept.:

There was in interesting paper presented at the 1981 annual meeting of the American Section of the International Solar energy Society AS/ISES), entitled, " St Botolph's Effect: Solar Reflections from Building Surfaces", presented by Lawrence L. Lindsey of the Princeton Energy Group. That paper described the effect of the reflective glass from a Boston office building at the north end of that SW - NE running street that would, at more than a few times/yr. shine directly up that street and, as seemingly verified by lots of slides, present a real danger to drivers and pedestrians. It looked pretty bad as I recall.

The same presentation also discussed the fa... OOPS !!! post got cut off W.T.F ?

Anyway, to carry on...... The same presentation also discussed a situation that occurred at the (then) recently opened Playboy Club on the Boardwalk at Atlantic city.

It seems some of the fa


The SW seems to have eaten the rest of this post. J.P.M.

[zehndorfer]

Dear sunking, solar pete and JPM,

I do not take it lightly that you did consider my post to be scam. I was not aware that I had offended the forums code of conduct - if I did please accept my excuses.

I understand that you have edited the content of my post, i.e. removed a reference to my webpage, where the interested reader will find more fact about the main topic of this thread such as reports, images and videos. Since I have seen other useful references to webpages on this thread, I thought that my mentioning will allow the interested reader to do more research about the topic there. I found that many people have a hard time to find quality information about the niche topic of solar glare and I wanted to allow them to get informed more quickly and thoroughly.

I did not intend to spam anyone with information he didn't want, not did I try to do this repeatedly nor on a scale larger than this one post. Nevertheless I am sorry if I have done anything to disturb the readers of this thread. Even though I do not think the edit of my post was correct or useful I accept the way it looks now and I am glad if you feel the same.

[J.P.M.]

Dear sunking, solar pete and JPM,

I do not take it lightly that you did consider my post to be scam. I was not aware that I had offended the forums code of conduct - if I did please accept my excuses.

I understand that you have edited the content of my post, i.e. removed a reference to my webpage, where the interested reader will find more fact about the main topic of this thread such as reports, images and videos. Since I have seen other useful references to webpages on this thread, I thought that my mentioning will allow the interested reader to do more research about the topic there. I found that many people have a hard time to find quality information about the niche topic of solar glare and I wanted to allow them to get informed more quickly and thoroughly.

I did not intend to spam anyone with information he didn't want, not did I try to do this repeatedly nor on a scale larger than this one post. Nevertheless I am sorry if I have done anything to disturb the readers of this thread. Even though I do not think the edit of my post was correct or useful I accept the way it looks now and I am glad if you feel the same.

I guess I get to respond.

1.) You may take it as you wish.

2.) For those seeking information about solar panel glare, Google is your friend. Just type " Solar panel glare" and hit enter. ~ 323,000 results. Pick & choose.

3.) Given the slippery nature of even understanding the situation, I'd be skeptical of anyone's "glare assessment" as being more than a scam with little purpose except to separate folks from their money.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[Sunking]

Dear sunking, solar pete and JPM,

I do not take it lightly that you did consider my post to be scam.

Do you think we give a crap what you a SPAMMER thinks? If it were up to me I would have nuked you before your SPAM ass before you finished typing. You are not welcome here.

[zehndorfer]

I guess I get to respond.

1.) You may take it as you wish.

2.) For those seeking information about solar panel glare, Google is your friend. Just type " Solar panel glare" and hit enter. ~ 323,000 results. Pick & choose.

3.) Given the slippery nature of even understanding the situation, I'd be skeptical of anyone's "glare assessment" as being more than a scam with little purpose except to separate folks from their money.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

Dear JPM

1) OK

2) if you do that, you run into many descriptions of the problem, but no real solution. i.e. neighbors complaining, juridical trials, tools etc. However the information missing in these results is what glaring really is, how it is measured and calculated exactly and how to avoid it. With my post (which you didn't like) I tried to explain a few facts and give the interested reader a chance to collect further information. By the way, a high number of google results never meant anything for the quality of the content (simply try to google "xxx" and you will understand what I mean)

3) Understanding solar glare has nothing slippery to it. Officially published regulation in many countries and from many different authorities determine clearly what limits they set for glaring, how to calculate and measure it and often also how to reduce glaring. I agree that there are so called "glare assessments" out there, that cannot determine the details of the problem nor provide any remedies. Different qualities are a matter of fact for any service or product. Our glare assessment however, will determine exactly how many minutes a specific neighbor has to endure the situation and from which viewing angles the reflections are seen (which is important for any driver or pilot). Simply categorizing all glare assessments as "scam" is as wrong as calling each car owner a speeding criminal.

I think you should also consider the title of the thread when you enter it - in this case the whole thread was about solar glare. If you don't like it, don't read it.

[J.P.M.]

Dear JPM

1) OK

2) if you do that, you run into many descriptions of the problem, but no real solution. i.e. neighbors complaining, juridical trials, tools etc. However the information missing in these results is what glaring really is, how it is measured and calculated exactly and how to avoid it. With my post (which you didn't like) I tried to explain a few facts and give the interested reader a chance to collect further information. By the way, a high number of google results never meant anything for the quality of the content (simply try to google "xxx" and you will understand what I mean)

3) Understanding solar glare has nothing slippery to it. Officially published regulation in many countries and from many different authorities determine clearly what limits they set for glaring, how to calculate and measure it and often also how to reduce glaring. I agree that there are so called "glare assessments" out there, that cannot determine the details of the problem nor provide any remedies. Different qualities are a matter of fact for any service or product. Our glare assessment however, will determine exactly how many minutes a specific neighbor has to endure the situation and from which viewing angles the reflections are seen (which is important for any driver or pilot). Simply categorizing all glare assessments as "scam" is as wrong as calling each car owner a speeding criminal.

I think you should also consider the title of the thread when you enter it - in this case the whole thread was about solar glare. If you don't like it, don't read it.

On #2, like I wrote, pick and choose. I prefer to make my own choices rather than have someone else decide what's pertinent as you seem to be alluding. I like choices. Besides, yours is not the only product available or game in town.

On #3, Your statement seems to have contradictions. That there are various published limits would tell me some agreement is lacking. You agree that various available "glare assessments" - I assume canned software - that cannot determine the details or provide remedies also seems at odds with your statement that understanding glare has nothing slippery about it. Your glare assessment, whatever it is, is most likely, by the very nature of the subject, probably and also, less than adequate for many situations just like the other stuff you denegrate. But there seems no way to evaluate the suitability nor accuracy of your, or any product. That lack of determinability would also seem to add some further lubricant to the "slippery" nature of the situation.

We have only your endorsement for your product. I usually follow the money for guidance on veracity and go with probability based on experience when it comes to how much trust I have in something/someone. Nothing personal - just business.

If your product is so great, and you hawk it here, why not do as many other posters who are professional engineers, technical and knowledgeable solar service providers and more than a few vendors do, and provide a little free or pro bono information about your product. Doing so would seem to provide verification that your product is different from other available "glare assessment" products out there that, using your words, "cannot determine the details of the problem nor provide any remedies". That your product may be different is something readers have only your word to use as verification. I've come to learn that "trust me" is about as reliable as "I'll respect you in the morning" when money or peddling is involved.

The last word is yours if you want it.

[zehndorfer]

On #2, like I wrote, pick and choose. I prefer to make my own choices rather than have someone else decide what's pertinent as you seem to be alluding. I like choices. Besides, yours is not the only product available or game in town.

On #3, Your statement seems to have contradictions. That there are various published limits would tell me some agreement is lacking. You agree that various available "glare assessments" - I assume canned software - that cannot determine the details or provide remedies also seems at odds with your statement that understanding glare has nothing slippery about it. Your glare assessment, whatever it is, is most likely, by the very nature of the subject, probably and also, less than adequate for many situations just like the other stuff you denegrate. But there seems no way to evaluate the suitability nor accuracy of your, or any product. That lack of determinability would also seem to add some further lubricant to the "slippery" nature of the situation.

We have only your endorsement for your product. I usually follow the money for guidance on veracity and go with probability based on experience when it comes to how much trust I have in something/someone. Nothing personal - just business.

If your product is so great, and you hawk it here, why not do as many other posters who are professional engineers, technical and knowledgeable solar service providers and more than a few vendors do, and provide a little free or pro bono information about your product. Doing so would seem to provide verification that your product is different from other available "glare assessment" products out there that, using your words, "cannot determine the details of the problem nor provide any remedies". That your product may be different is something readers have only your word to use as verification. I've come to learn that "trust me" is about as reliable as "I'll respect you in the morning" when money or peddling is involved.

The last word is yours if you want it.

Dear JPM
on #2 OF course you are free to pick and chose. However you used the high number of available google results to support your point, that enough quality information is available for solar glare - this is incorrect.

on#3 Any product or service available in this beautiful world will come in a broad a range of features, flavors and qualities. Finding bad examples of a service is normal - it does not mean that the whole profession is "slippery" as you call it. In other words - If your car breaks down, it does not mean that the whole car industry is a "slippery" business.

Solar Glare Assessments are 100% deterministic - i.e. a survey report done by a second source will come up with the very same results. I have personally verified the calculations of others for the purpose of fighting them in court and found that their results were congruent with mine. This might come as a surprise to you, but if you dig a little bit deeper into the matter, you will see that the few companies, who can do this properly, will all produce the same outcome for any given case. But - I give you that - there are not so many companies, who can do a decent job in this field (and this is the main reason why I am posting here).

Since you have managed to censor the part of my post where I link to further explanations, you don't find the "free, pro bono information" about my product you are requesting now. However, you will still be able to find it on my company website and you are welcome to check it out. Let me know if you have any questions.

[Mike90250]

Honestly folks (and you Zehndorfer)
If you are really feeling "threatened" by the word nuke, as in Nuke the Spammer, you need to go to the backyard and dig yourself a womb to hide in.

Zehndorfer - I'm not sure what your experience in the real world is, but your actions, by posting very "spammy" feeling posts about a product/service your company/employer provides would have have you instantly banned from many boards, I almost erased you myself when I saw the post.

But seriously, if you are honestly concerned that some private individual, on another continent, is going to be able to launch a nuke missile to your location, you should see a medical professional soon. There is such a thing as internet rhetoric, and most internet denizens completely get it after about 30 seconds. On the other hand, if you are just waving your arms because you got caught dropping links, and are now trying to deflect, it's not working.

So, now that the original thread HAS been hijacked by a spammer, and the cleanup thereof, it leaves the moderators the task of sorting through the messages to clean up the mess,
Your Welcome,

[oilerlord]

Glare from 5-8 panels (out of 48) for 45 minutes per day. And of course, every day is a sunny, cloudless day during those 45 minutes. Geez Louise. In the nicest, most amiable and polite way, tell the guy to go pound sand.