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Neighbor experiencing glare, wants me to remove panels or he will take legal action

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  • #16
    It seems to me that the HOA itself may have some responsibility here as they actually approved the installation. Perhaps they should be the ones documenting the extent of the glare. After all, if it ever goes the legal route, there will be discovery and you can bet that the glare will have to be fully documented. Have you informed the HOA of the problem? I'd echo J.P.M.'s suggestion re dealing with the HOA: be polite and professional. Since they approved the installation, there's some incentive for them to be on your side.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by peakbagger View Post
      Next thing to remember is angle of incidence equal angle of refraction...
      To avoid confusion, make that angle of reFLECtion. The angle of reFRACtion is f(index of refraction), not f(angle of incidence).

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      • #18
        Originally posted by tracksyde View Post
        I am not a lawyer and I dont play on on TV either, but I believe with the passage of Ab2188, effective 1/1/2015, the 20% decrease in efficiency you speak of was decreased to 10%. as in, an HOA's "suggestions" cannot decrease the efficiency of your system by more than 10%.

        http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...arch_keywords=
        You are correct. I was in error in my 20% statement. I will correct the erroneous text in that post. My apologies for the error and any confusion and/or extra work it caused.

        Thank you for the correction.

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        • #19
          Depending on how the glare pans out, how big yards are, etc., would putting up a fence, hedge, billboard, etc. be a potential fix?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Ian S View Post
            It seems to me that the HOA itself may have some responsibility here as they actually approved the installation. ...
            That is a really interesting point. The HOA may want to handle the entire matter. Or, if it ends up that the neighbor's lawyer brings an action against the HOA, it might be that the HOA incurs the legal fees, not the solar panel home owner.

            If you need to see a lawyer, consider looking for a lawyer / law firm with some experience in this area, so that they don't have to come up to speed on solar panels and CA related case law. Many lawyers write legal updates on topics they have been interested in. One possible way to identify experienced lawyers is to do some google searches including case law, or law firm, words and phrases like that. (law review, law journal articles, while informative, are often prepared by law students).

            Timing may be a difficult decision. Hopefully, no lawyers need to be involved (perhaps this can be resolved with the HOA alone if both of you are members).

            On the other hand, if this controversy might go to a legal action, even months or years out, it is probably best that only your lawyer communicates on this matter with the adverse party (or, of course their lawyer if it gets that far).

            See what the HOA says, they might want to take complete control for the first pass. If you need to move towards hiring a lawyer, many give a free consultation, and you might be able to "interview" more than one.

            (just information, not legal advice)
            Last edited by idnominal; 08-29-2016, 04:15 PM.

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            • #21
              I wonder what "damages" your neighbor can prove? Saying you are going to sue and actually doing it are two totally different things.

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              • #22
                Beyond the idea of adding a hedge / screen / billboard / awning / tree to shield the neighbor,
                would a small change in tilt of the affected panels help? You might be able to move the reflection enough to help.

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                • #23
                  The simplest route might be to offer solar sun film on the neighbors affected windows.
                  But generally, PV panels have an anti-reflection coating, reflected light is lost power. Some glare could be expected, but getting someone to move panels by changing the angle, will cost $1,000 just to have them drive up to do the job.
                  I think it is a case of "sour grapes" you have panels, and they don't. so they want "something".
                  Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                  || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                  || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                  solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
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                  • #24
                    There's a cheap simple solution

                    Don't focus on blocking the glare at his end. Focus on blocking it from your end without moving any panels. The panels are flat against the roof. You need something just a few inches up and it will block the glare. Add a mirror material to the panel side to focus some sunlight back to the panels so that you wouldn't lose any production
                    Last edited by huge; 08-30-2016, 10:52 PM.

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                    • 8.4
                      8.4 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      That could work unless he's got a few rows and the top or middle rows are the culprit. Then it would be hard to get to and possibly shading some of his panels and causing loss of production from them shutting down.

                  • #25
                    Originally posted by category4 View Post
                    I wonder what "damages" your neighbor can prove? Saying you are going to sue and actually doing it are two totally different things.
                    Nuisance is different. You don't prove damages per se, but some degree of impairment in enjoying your property. Apparently in CA there are already defined some nuisance levels of reflected light from solar panels, probably there is a time factor too. Like any other complaint in life, glare complaints likely range from ridiculous and frivolous to legitimate and serious.

                    For sure, a threat is very different from action. Hopefully the OP can solve the problem with no lawyers. Even if lawyers get involved, most controversies do not go to trial, or even get as far as filing a case, let alone the early stages of discovery. More often than not, it is a few phone calls or a letter or two, or maybe a meeting, and that's it.
                    Last edited by idnominal; 08-29-2016, 09:00 PM.

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                    • #26
                      Originally posted by DanKegel View Post
                      Beyond the idea of adding a hedge / screen / billboard / awning / tree to shield the neighbor,
                      would a small change in tilt of the affected panels help? You might be able to move the reflection enough to help.
                      Dan, use your head and think about it. The sun will move and take the reflection with it.

                      Point is, without actually moving the array, knowing apriori what's going to happen at any daylight minute, it's near impossible to predict what will happen for every daylight hour for every day of the year under a scheme as you envision.

                      I've tried using 12" X 12 " mirror tiles to see the reflective effect on neighbors before arrays go in. A few degrees or less will move a reflection a lot. The sun's movement will move it as much in a few min. Point is, while possible, as a practical matter, it's near impossible to predict where a solar reflection will be at any time that is not the present.

                      Rearrangement of an array may shift the time of offending reflections, or onto a different neighbor. Even if reflections can be guaranteed to be avoided altogether, the resulting tilt and or azimuth may be aesthetically unpleasant. to the owner. And then, there's always the real possibility of fixing one problem only to create a new one with a different neighbor. I don't have a one size fits all solution, or maybe no solution, yet, but changing the tilt (or azimuth for that matter) can be a real challenge both in $$ and complexity with an uncertain outcome at best.

                      Your tilt idea seems to me to be another example of " You could just do this - after all, I'm only and 'idea' person" type of thinking. Seen such and been cleaning up the mess such thinking causes for a long time.

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                      • #27
                        #1) Confirm the details of the "glare". Ask your neighbor to let you see what he's complaining about. Verify whether the glare really exists, and if so how it supposedly affects the neighbor's life. Then consider how neighborly you want to be in remedying the problem. If it's just some reflection hitting the side of his house halfway up, that's different than if there's a concentrated glare onto the seating area of his patio or tv room or into his eyes while he's cooking something in the kitchen.

                        #2) If you're concerned about the cost of a remedy, consider alerting your homeowner's insurance. To the extent your neighbor has threatened legal action, your homeowner's carrier may provide coverage and may agree to nip things in the bud by settling early (i.e. moving the panels for you).

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                        • #28
                          Originally posted by Beachsolar View Post
                          #1) Confirm the details of the "glare". Ask your neighbor to let you see what he's complaining about. Verify whether the glare really exists, and if so how it supposedly affects the neighbor's life. Then consider how neighborly you want to be in remedying the problem. If it's just some reflection hitting the side of his house halfway up, that's different than if there's a concentrated glare onto the seating area of his patio or tv room or into his eyes while he's cooking something in the kitchen.

                          #2) If you're concerned about the cost of a remedy, consider alerting your homeowner's insurance. To the extent your neighbor has threatened legal action, your homeowner's carrier may provide coverage and may agree to nip things in the bud by settling early (i.e. moving the panels for you).
                          Any glare will land on different surfaces and will change location minute to minute, day to day. Confirming the glare is a necessary fact, but understanding that to do it correctly such that all the bases are covered represents a very difficult task to understand, much less pull off. Think of how shadows change over the course of a day and with the seasons.

                          Instruments such as a solar pathfinder may be of some help in this by use as a symmetric way to find an incidence angle "cone" so to speak as the symmetric portion of the "cone" of the reflection illuminated surface. I do not have such an instrument, but having one and applying a bit of inventiveness might bear some fruit or at least a few ideas.

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                          • #29
                            You need to go experience this "glare" for yourself and while you're there, take some pics.

                            HE may think it is an issue - but what would an ordinary, prudent person think - I think that is the benchmark you would be shooting for if it was to go to court

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                            • DanKegel
                              DanKegel commented
                              Editing a comment
                              +1 on that. Get as much documentation and (timestamped) pictures as you can.

                              If he'll let you on the property, or is willing to send you pictures himself, get them from his point of view.
                              And get pictures from your point of view at the time he says the glare is worst.

                          • #30
                            It'd be interesting to hear about other cases, and how they were resolved.

                            Here's one where I was able to find addresses for both ends of the dispute:
                            http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jun...house-20100622
                            https://www.google.com/maps/dir/1301...17.8878878,19z
                            (pretty big array, claim was "
                            the porch of his Balboa Island home is now subjected to an intense glare for 2 1/2 hours a day".)
                            Not sure how the case was resolved, though.


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