Reasonably priced rail systems?

[thejumpingsheep]

So I am not at the point of pricing rail systems and I went through the obligatory steps of checking Ironridge, and unirac. Wow they are expensive... more expensive than my panels almost. Ironridge priced out to about $0.52 cents a W and Unirac about $0.45... thats just too much. The panels barely cost me $0.50 delivered to my doorstep lol.

Are there any reasonably priced alternatives that people have used and liked? My current project is a shingle roof. Most of it is almost flat using shingle sheets, but about 1/3 of the install will be on a slopped roof using normal shingles. Any recommendations?

[sunnyguy]

Nice deal on panels. What did you get and from where?

Unirac is around $2/ft, 7ft per panel = $14 + $5 in hardware is $19/260w = $0.07/w (not including mounting/flashing)

[solarix]

I agree on thinking the manufactured rail systems as being overly expensive. I think it is because they have a mindset of using custom extruded shapes in order to provide a flexible, adjustable mounting system (that doesn't require power tools on the roof) and because they have to provide the engineering to qualify these systems to building departments.
My solution as an independent installer is to design our own system using standard, stock aluminum shapes. Instead of the expensive luxury of a slotted rail that allows the installer to slip in bolts where ever needed, we simply use good old screw guns to drill a hole where ever needed. Lots cheaper. 2" x 2" x 1/8" aluminum angle is available nationwide by any aluminum supplier - mine delivers to us for free if ordered in 500lb minimums. So no shipping costs and it comes in long 25' lengths so there can be less rail splicing. We use IronRidge Grounding Mid Clamps for top mounting PV panels (forget the mounting holes provided on PV panels - big hassle trying to line them up). On the end of a rail, we use a neat product I found at InterSolar a couple years ago called a Gator Clamp (Powers Steel in Phoenix) that looks like a gator's mouth and simple clamps the flange of the panel to the flange of the rail. Works like a beam clamp but better - and is hidden under the panel so you can cut the rail of flush with the panel edge and comes out looking very nice and neat. Lots better than having the rail stick out with some goofy clamp on the end.
Ok, so the downside of our system is that it is not "manufactured" and not recognized by building departments. Fortunately, I have a PE friend that has analyzed our system and is willing to sign off on it for a fee every time I use the drawing. Lots cheaper all in all than the usual solar mounting systems. About $15 per panel including shingle mounts and shipping which is about 5cents/watt.
Also, every time I've tried to use these systems - I'm always stymied by all the little custom pieces and parts needed. If the roof layout changes (as usual), or were short on something - the job goes on hold until we can get whatever is needed, whereas with our system - we just easily fabricate whatever we need from these standard aluminum shapes that we can stock up on.
PM me if you want a copy of our drawing.

[sensij]

If you live in CA and are required to meet Class A fire rating, you will need to use commercial racking like Ironridge or Unirac that has been tested and approved for your type of panels.

[littleharbor]

Old Home Depot solar installations used galvanized unistrut with stainless steel bolts and large washers as hold downs. Whether or not this is code compliant and satisfies your AHJ would remain to be seen but it was apparently okay 10 years ago in Malibu on an installation I removed. Boy that steel unistrut is heavy BTW.

[SunEagle]

Old Home Depot solar installations used galvanized unistrut with stainless steel bolts and large washers as hold downs. Whether or not this is code compliant and satisfies your AHJ would remain to be seen but it was apparently okay 10 years ago in Malibu on an installation I removed. Boy that steel unistrut is heavy BTW.

A lot of building codes have changed in 10 years. What was ok then does not meet the current code now.

Similar problem in Florida. 12 years ago most buildings did not have to meet a wind loading for stronger hurricanes as they now do. You could build a home that might resist a CAT 2 hurricane but now you have to meet a CAT 3 standard.

IMO if someone inverts in a pv system they should make sure it does not fall off or get blown off the roof. If that means spending a little more then so be it.

[thejumpingsheep]

Nice deal on panels. What did you get and from where?

Unirac is around $2/ft, 7ft per panel = $14 + $5 in hardware is $19/260w = $0.07/w (not including mounting/flashing)

They are available in a lot of places. Look up Topoint 190W Mono and you should get a few places that have them. I ended up getting an unopened pallet from Ebay. With freight it cost $3020 or so. They are advertised as A grade so I have my fingers crossed. I actually found a bunch of stuff in Los Angeles, expecially B grade panels, which looked really nice to me but what do i know?

I went to unirac again and again its quoting me $1684 for my 21 panel array (the other array is 9 panels)... that works out to be $0.41/W and does not include accessories which is an additional $480... how did you get it down to such a low price? Am I doing it wrong? The exact quote, without accessories, is as follows (I hope this shows up correctly):

320240M		Rail	AL SM RAIL 240" MILL		16	101.10	1617.60
302022C		End Clamp	CLR SM ENDCLAMP C CLR AL		32	3.55	113.60
302027C		Mid Clamp	CLR SM BND MIDCLAMP BC SS		32	4.15	132.80
304001C		Roof Attachment	CLR L-FOOT SERRATED W/ T-BOLT, CLR		90	4.35	391.50
008009P		Grounding Lug	ILSCO LAY IN LUG (GBL4DBT)		8	8.40	67.20

[ButchDeal]

an L-Foot is not a roof attachment. you will need some sort of attachment, most likely a flashed device like those from quickmount QMSC-A1

[sunnyguy]

Oh OK toppoint 190s I see sun electronics has them for 0.41/w. They are actually smaller and only require <6ft of rail per panel. Obviously the unirac public calculator is going to quote you retail price, but if you buy local and pick up you can probably get it for $2/ft. Otherwise renvu has pretty good prices.

[thejumpingsheep]

Oh OK toppoint 190s I see sun electronics has them for 0.41/w. They are actually smaller and only require <6ft of rail per panel. Obviously the unirac public calculator is going to quote you retail price, but if you buy local and pick up you can probably get it for $2/ft. Otherwise renvu has pretty good prices.

Are there any stores in San Diego per chance? Otherwise I can always make a trip to LA if needed.

[sensij]

I haven't had any success finding a data sheet that shows the fire rating of those panels. If you are trying to get a permit approved in San Diego without that information, good luck.

[thejumpingsheep]

ButchDeal[/URL]]
an L-Foot is not a roof attachment. you will need some sort of attachment, most likely a flashed device like those from quickmount QMSC-A1

Well thats just great. Wonder why its quoting me those... is it maybe because that array is basically on a flat roof? That part of my array is on a car port that is relatively flat and has shingle sheets. Or is that still wrong?

[thejumpingsheep]

I haven't had any success finding a data sheet that shows the fire rating of those panels. If you are trying to get a permit approved in San Diego without that information, good luck.

Ah great... i looked at their UL certificate and its dated Aug 2011...

[sensij]

Ah great... i looked at their UL certificate and its dated Aug 2011...

That isn't necessarily a problem. You just need something somewhere that says what fire class or type. From the description of the UL testing

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?&name=QIGU.GuideInfo&ccnshorttitle=Photovoltaic+Modules+and+Panels&objid=1074115807&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073991981&sequence=1

FLAME CLASSES When applicable, modules and panels are marked "Class A," "Class B" or "Class C" to denote their resistance to external fire exposure. Modules and panels that have not been identified with respect to their resistance to external fire exposure are marked "Not Fire Rated." For significance of external fire exposure classes, see Roof-covering Materials (TEVT) and Roofing Systems (TGFU).

[thejumpingsheep]

That isn't necessarily a problem. You just need something somewhere that says what fire class or type. From the description of the UL testing

So i tried to track them down but it looks like they went under in 2014. Their manufacturing plants were taken over by Jinko Solar but i dont think they took over their business. Looks like I just need to go ask the city planner to see what he says.

[sunnyguy]

I haven't had any success finding a data sheet that shows the fire rating of those panels. If you are trying to get a permit approved in San Diego without that information, good luck.

Class C?

http://www.e2y.eu/cataloghi/topoint/inst_jiutai.pdf