Feedback on quote for New Jersey home

[Guillaume_8667]

Thanks to all so much for your help everything is started to make more sense to me.

As you seem very knowledgeable I had another question:
I'm planning to buy a EV within the next few year it would probably add 1,500W per year (drive only 15miles per day on average).
Is it easy to add solar panel to a system later, would I need to get new permits? Change the inverter?

Thanks

[J.P.M.]

Thanks to all so much for your help everything is started to make more sense to me.

As you seem very knowledgeable I had another question:
I'm planning to buy a EV within the next few year it would probably add 1,500W per year (drive only 15miles per day on average).
Is it easy to add solar panel to a system later, would I need to get new permits? Change the inverter?

Thanks

For the + 1,500 kWh (not Watts) per year, I'd consider increasing the system size at the outset by 1200-1500 Watts. Adding capacity after the fact get expensive and troublesome. I'd also suggest to do your best to make sure the EV plans have a reasonably high probability of actually becoming reality, and 5-6,000 miles/yr. is a realistic estimate.

[Guillaume_8667]

Hi JPM,

Here is the number I have been using.

EV consumption: 29kwh/100miles (current averag)
Work commute: 50miles/week
Extra travel: 50miles per week (to give myself some room)
Year: 50 weeks conservative (2 weeks vacations + public holidays + sick day)
Annual consumption: 29kwh x 50 = 1450kwh

So besides commuting I have an extra 2,500miles for my trips on the weekend to the beach (70miles return) and ski (140miles return) 10 of each each year that's about 2,100miles. And any longet trip I would probably have to charge my car on the way.

Oh yes I'm planning on getting a tesla model 3 or another EV with a 200miles range.

[Guillaume_8667]

Ok so here is a summary of all my quotes I would love to have some guidance:

	Company A			Company B		Company C	Company D
	Quote 1	Quote 2	Quote 3	Quote 1	Quote 2	Quote 1	Quote 1	Quote 2
Solar panel name	LG LG315N1C-G4 PV	WINAICO WSP-300M6	SolarWorld SW285 Mono Black	SolarWorld 280 Mono Black	LG 365W Mono Neon (LG365N2W-B3	Hyundai HIS-S260BK	SolarWorld 280 Mono Black	LG LG315N1C-G4 PV
Quantity	18	18	20	20	16	21	19	17
Inverter	SolarEdge SE3800A	SolarEdge SE5000A	SolarEdge SE5000A	Enphase M250	SolarEdge SE5000A	Enphase M215	SolarEdge SE7500A	SolarEdge SE7500A
System size (kW)	5.67kW	5.40kW	5.70kW	5.60kW	5.80kW	5.46kW	5.32kW	5.355kW
Estimated output (kWh)	6,972kWh	6,518kWh	6,755kWh	6,735kWh	7,000kWh	6,573kWh	6708kWh	6752kWh
Total cost	$22,936	$19,866	$20,819	$20,440	$21,608	$20,698	$19,352	$20,081
Dollar/Watt (before incentives	4.05	3.68	3.65	3.65	3.73	3.79	3.64	3.75
Dollar/Watt - $500 town fee	3.96	3.59	3.76	3.56	3.64	3.70	3.54	3.66

The last row "dollar/watt-$500 town fee", I thought would be valuable to compare the rate to other people in NJ. My town ask for a $500 check to cover the engineer consultant fees.

Also I live in a split house level so I have two different roof level, the main roof is about 25'x15' which means 2 arrays of 7 panels (60cells) would fit nicely, I could push it and have a third array but about 1foot of the solar panel would stick beyond the roof line, not sure its ideal. The third array of panel could also be installed horizontally so 4 panels in that array. See picture attached of different way to install.

If I only go with 14 on the main roof I was thinking of the SolarWorld 325 XL pretty inexpensive at $360 a piece.

I think I'm leaning toward the SolarWorld because of the huge price difference with LG's. Anyone can give me a good explanation of why LG are more expensive?

Right now I'm at 6,735kWh per year but because of my plan of getting an EV within a year or two I'm looking to size my system to about 8,100kWh which from my calculation is close to a 6.1kW system. That would mean 22x SolarWorld 280 and would be probably my cheapest option. I know I can only apply for a system that cover <=100% of my usage but I think I'm just going to over use for the next 2 month to meet that quota unless someone else has a better alternative? I know I can add the panel later "without permit" that's why company D is quoting me Solaredge 7500A but then no SRECs I would probably end up missing out on 1 srec per year.

Anyway I know it's a lot of info lots of pro and cons I this point I would just like to hear what everyone think of the rates I'm getting.

Thanks

[ButchDeal]

layout using both roof faces and avoiding tree shadows on the lower parts of the roof is better.
as already stated a SE3800 is too small for 5.7kw array
There is no such inverter as SE7500A Likely this is a typo for the SE7600A
NOTE also that the SE7600A is the only upgradable inverter to support the powerwall. You could use it in any of the configurations though if you had them change the inverter to the SE7600A.

[Guillaume_8667]

Sorry I should have mention the shadow comes from that big tree but we are taking it down so no more shade on the roof.

[Guillaume_8667]

Anyone want to chime in?

I'm leaning toward company C with the SolarWorld 280, is $3.64/Watt a fair price? I read that some people in NJ fair price range was more like $3-$3.5/W

[NYHeel]

The rates look pretty reasonable. I'm at $3.28 per Watt using the Winaico 300 watt panels but that's a 10.5 kW system. Otherwise my setup is pretty similar. I also have two different arrays/configurations, one is mostly southern facing (a little SW) and the other is mostly eastern (a little SE).

[Guillaume_8667]

Thanks NYHeel. So maybe I can ask for slightly lower price because my roof is full south

[J.P.M.]

Thanks NYHeel. So maybe I can ask for slightly lower price because my roof is full south

Why ?

[NYHeel]

Thanks NYHeel. So maybe I can ask for slightly lower price because my roof is full south

I don't see why that would make a difference in pricing. I think the larger systems can cause the dollars per watt to come down just based on common sense. The installation cost for a 10 kW system is not typically twice that of a 5kW system. So you'd expect to see a lower price per watt for the 10 kW one.

[Guillaume_8667]

Ok that make sense. So I should not haggle?

[skellig]

I would not rush into signing a contract. Do your due diligence. Check reviews, ask for references and go out and see some of their installs. You can learn a lot about the company from talking to other solar customers. As J.P.M. often says "knowledge is power ". That couldn't be more true. Been reading this forum on and off the last few months and currently getting quotes. When you show the salespeople that you know a little about solar they wont be able to BS you and you are more likely to get a better price. Will be posting my quotes next week.

[J.P.M.]

Ok that make sense. So I should not haggle?

Haggle for sure. Like the rest of life, you don't get what you want, you get what you negotiate.

However, don't do it without more information. You don't get what you really need without knowledge Without it, the other side will quickly discern your solar ignorance and B.S. and you'll get screwed worse. Read Solar Power Your Home for Dummies, really understand how you are charged for power and above all, know what you want for sizes and equipment and more importantly why, and also know what the rest of the market is paying. Get your own answers and don't rely on peddlers for them unless you think letting the foxes guard the henhouse is a good idea.

Some things just take some work.

[Guillaume_8667]

Hey skellig and JPM thanks for the advice, right now I'm probably going to go with a guy who was doing that for 6 years in Colorado and now moved into my town, he was recommended to me by my boss (he does solar maintenance at our plant). He would be installing everything himself (with help from one guy he uses all the times) he lives 2 street away from me which makes it really convenient and he is actually passionate about what he does! All the other companies with their salesman I don't like it very much, but that is just my personal opinion.

Anyway skellig looking forward to see your quotes.

And I think I have done my fair share of research over the last 2 weeks, I understand how to size my system, I chose SolarWorld (SW280 -> $320x19=$6,080)for solar panel because they are Tier 1, affordable and american made (with german engineering of course) and for the inverter I think for now I'm leaning for inverter+optimizer (solaredge 7600 -> $1,575 + 19x$68=$2,867) rather than micro-inverter but it seems that neither design is taking the lead. It looks like I'm at $9k for panels+inverter+optimizers, I know our town is asking already $500 for engineering review, all the hardware (rack, flashing etc..) probably add up to $2k, contractor has to pay a structural engineer for load calculation (he is doing the drawings of the system himself) let's say $500. So $12k for direct expense of the system. Which means the contractor has around $7k for his labor. Does that sound right?

[J.P.M.]

Hey skellig and JPM thanks for the advice, right now I'm probably going to go with a guy who was doing that for 6 years in Colorado and now moved into my town, he was recommended to me by my boss (he does solar maintenance at our plant). He would be installing everything himself (with help from one guy he uses all the times) he lives 2 street away from me which makes it really convenient and he is actually passionate about what he does! All the other companies with their salesman I don't like it very much, but that is just my personal opinion.

Anyway skellig looking forward to see your quotes.

And I think I have done my fair share of research over the last 2 weeks, I understand how to size my system, I chose SolarWorld (SW280 -> $320x19=$6,080)for solar panel because they are Tier 1, affordable and american made (with german engineering of course) and for the inverter I think for now I'm leaning for inverter+optimizer (solaredge 7600 -> $1,575 + 19x$68=$2,867) rather than micro-inverter but it seems that neither design is taking the lead. It looks like I'm at $9k for panels+inverter+optimizers, I know our town is asking already $500 for engineering review, all the hardware (rack, flashing etc..) probably add up to $2k, contractor has to pay a structural engineer for load calculation (he is doing the drawings of the system himself) let's say $500. So $12k for direct expense of the system. Which means the contractor has around $7k for his labor. Does that sound right?

You're welcome. You'll probably be happier and better off without the micros. You could do worse on price.

Is the installer licensed ? Workman's comp ? Don't forget to get your roof inspected/serviced if not already done so.

Do yourself another favor and use mounting posts that are double flashed. My guess is there's a lot of roof penetrations that will be leaking in the future. The old methods take time and cost more, but a lot of what I've seen for roof penetrations will be a problem down the road. A roof, or roof penetration methods are not the place to cheap out.

[Guillaume_8667]

Installer is a licenced electrician, I need to ask him about workman comp. Roof is brand new installed 10/2015.

Can you direct me to literature or explanation of the different option for rack and mounts options?

Thanks