Is Sunpower price difference worth it? -- thoughts, posting as new topic

[Yaryman]

Mark - I've got your back and if you want to chat offline, PM me. No, I don't work for SunPower.

Unless the PM system has been fixed or turned on, you can't PM somebody.

[Sunking]

Yea, from your pic, I could see the resemblance in attitude and particularly waist down characteristics.

Do your wife and friends call you Tripod too?

[Sunking]

Mark, I agree with your comments. I've found the most vocal voices in solarpaneltalk are not pro S.P. except for footprint.

That is because we are not biased and here to try to sell you something. Many of us are pros who have worked with SP and many manufactures. There is nothing special about them, and in many ways fall short in production and operation. We have nothing to loose or gain no matter what you do. We are just here to save you from yourself and slick salesman.If you already pulled the trigger, well then.....

[J.P.M.]

Do your wife and friends call you Tripod too?

Sometimes when I get excited about something. However, wife # 1 (still friends) used to bust my butt at parties 1X/awhile and tell a story about when we were first dating how she thought I might make a good rodeo cowboy (probably from OK as it turns out ?) because I could do anything for 8 seconds.

[leffjouie]

Lol. I appreciate your humor guys - tripod I lol'd. Didn't know about PVOutput until yesterday. I uploaded my results to LavaSunPower. Unfortunately, not many arrays in my zipcode that I can compare to. I certainly can't claim empirical data will prove what my pre-install research yielded. I've only been online for 90 days and every install is unique. The data that I'm referencing is a lower NOCT temp, % yield on low irradiance, and degradation rates. Most I found on spec sheets, field study pdfs, etc. The difference is only 2-4% across the board, but it tipped my thoughts in favor of buying SP.

In my case, I didn't get a slick salesman, actually quite the opposite with the rep i worked with (I went to SP direct). If we're talking about the materials/claims that SP makes, I can agree that it definitely dupes the layman into thinking that it is a far superior product than it actually is.

I definitely think that this community is steering people in the correct direction: The quality installer makes a great deal of difference. The product when talking about the larger manufacturers is less differentiated in terms of performance than any manufacture claims.

Anyhoo, I took a chance on SP and I hope that the premium I paid will prove worthy.

You guys are doing a great service on steering people towards multiple good quotes and logical installs. I personally thank you guys for that too. I guess my gripe is that it often seems that SP gets the short end of the stick when people do choose that manufacturer.

[Yaryman]

Care to share what city in the Bay Area you reside.
These are the results from 18 Solarworld 280's facing South in Brentwood. ( 5040 kW )
Most likely a little sunny here than closer to the coast.

http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=45408

[sensij]

I uploaded my results to LavaSunPower. Unfortunately, not many arrays in my zipcode that I can compare to. I certainly can't claim empirical data will prove what my pre-install research yielded. I've only been online for 90 days and every install is unique.

Very nice! If you click the "map" button, it graphically shows the areas near yours, sometimes an easier way to find them than by using filters on the outputs. I'll carve out some time soon to look more closely.

It looks like you are pushing daily data... what method are you using? SMA inverters are kind of difficult to link up with the outside world.

[leffjouie]

Awesome! Thanks for the tip about the "map" button. I live on the Fremont/Milpitas border as per my PVOutput profile. Comparing a few in my area, it seems my array is doing well. It is amazing to note the differences in South vs. Southwest direction. I wonder what my burn-in time/degradation is or if that has much impact when comparing to older systems.

I did a batch upload and intend to do so monthly. I'm very excited about my install lately, so perhaps more frequently in the immediate future. My install has included web monitoring (it's an addon module), so I simply downloaded the csv file and uploaded it to PV Output. I can do as granular as hourly.

[J.P.M.]

Lol. I appreciate your humor guys - tripod I lol'd. Didn't know about PVOutput until yesterday. I uploaded my results to LavaSunPower. Unfortunately, not many arrays in my zipcode that I can compare to. I certainly can't claim empirical data will prove what my pre-install research yielded. I've only been online for 90 days and every install is unique. The data that I'm referencing is a lower NOCT temp, % yield on low irradiance, and degradation rates. Most I found on spec sheets, field study pdfs, etc. The difference is only 2-4% across the board, but it tipped my thoughts in favor of buying SP.

In my case, I didn't get a slick salesman, actually quite the opposite with the rep i worked with (I went to SP direct). If we're talking about the materials/claims that SP makes, I can agree that it definitely dupes the layman into thinking that it is a far superior product than it actually is.

I definitely think that this community is steering people in the correct direction: The quality installer makes a great deal of difference. The product when talking about the larger manufacturers is less differentiated in terms of performance than any manufacture claims.

Anyhoo, I took a chance on SP and I hope that the premium I paid will prove worthy.

You guys are doing a great service on steering people towards multiple good quotes and logical installs. I personally thank you guys for that too. I guess my gripe is that it often seems that SP gets the short end of the stick when people do choose that manufacturer.

Understood.

Sometimes I sum up my opinions by saying that after being around R.E/solar for about 40 years, and in that time becoming/being one of it's biggest fans, and seeing what's happening, I'm of the opinion that if more folks knew some of what I think I might know, there would be a lot fewer arrays on roofs and those that did exist would be a lot smaller and a lot better thought out. But, opinions vary.

[MKI]

We are a few weeks away from our system being installed!. We picked the number of panels required based on their annual output and chose Sunpower panels (the premium over LG was closer to 8%). In the midst of our contract signing Sunpower decreased their annual power estimates for San Diego by ~10% which meant the difference of one additional panel for our house. Lucky for us, we focused on performance when signing our contract and picked a reputable and honest installer that added the additional panel at no extra cost. So, when comparing quotes I would not just look at $/DC but also what the starting performance guarantee will be.

I would also like to thank this forum for all your insight and assistance in helping us make such an informed purchasing decision!

[J.P.M.]

We are a few weeks away from our system being installed!. We picked the number of panels required based on their annual output and chose Sunpower panels (the premium over LG was closer to 8%). In the midst of our contract signing Sunpower decreased their annual power estimates for San Diego by ~10% which meant the difference of one additional panel for our house. Lucky for us, we focused on performance when signing our contract and picked a reputable and honest installer that added the additional panel at no extra cost. So, when comparing quotes I would not just look at $/DC but also what the starting performance guarantee will be.

I would also like to thank this forum for all your insight and assistance in helping us make such an informed purchasing decision!

Not so much directed at the OP, but for others thinking about solar but not committed yet:

Without knowing what your situation is and what you were quoted for systems with both panels, I'd wonder if the 8% premium was more a matter of the LG being overpriced vs. the S.P. being that competitive. Caveat Emptor.

It isn't the # or size of the panels, it's the system size that counts. 5,000 lbs. of rocks or 5,000 lbs. of pebbles weigh the same.

I don't understand what " Sunpower decreased their annual power estimates for San Diego by ~ 10%" means. If that's what someone did actually say, it's B.S. unless you're getting the new "Performance series" panel that's not supposed to be around until later this year, w/ panel STC's of about 17% or so and a lower price than the usual S.P. premium. However and also, those panels are supposed to be commercial Or, as it sounds like might have happened, the S.P. vendor (if the quotes were from competing vendors) may have found out where the LG quoted price was and used that 10% line as a reason to get closer in price by throwing in a panel without looking like they were dropping their pants for a sale. Without knowing the whole story, could be lots of reasons.

The performance will be the approximately the same for equal (electrical) sized systems, LG or S.P. One will cost 8% more up front. Either will probably have equally and acceptably low probability of failure for as long as you're likely to own them.

Performance guarantees are a marketing tool. Their trigger thresholds are so low you've got to be careful you don't trip over them. Read them. You'll never have a successful warranty claim.

There is certainly a lot more to buying PV than simply low dollar. If you have a reputable installer and a quality product, that's worth a slight premium. Paying an 8% premium for S.P. is getting closer to where their worth is as part of an electrical generating system, but IMO, if cost effectiveness and most long term bang for the buck are a priority, that is still too high for what you may be getting.

Unless something is unusual about an install, the going rate around here for a decent LG or other non S.P. system is about $3.50/Watt or so with some sharp, but not a lot of, negotiating. Much more than that and money is being left on the table.

[MKI]

Hi, I just wanted to provide my experience to assist others. Our installer added a panel for free after our contract was signed 6 weeks prior so it didn't provide them any advantage except goodwill. We had over 13 companies provide quotes so were very confident in analyzing our premium. For reference, we are paying $3.71/DC for a 4.58 DC system in San Diego. Our lowest quote was $3.63 (LG) and highest was $4.59 (SP).

[J.P.M.]

Hi, I just wanted to provide my experience to assist others. Our installer added a panel for free after our contract was signed 6 weeks prior so it didn't provide them any advantage except goodwill. We had over 13 companies provide quotes so were very confident in analyzing our premium. For reference, we are paying $3.71/DC for a 4.58 DC system in San Diego. Our lowest quote was $3.63 (LG) and highest was $4.59 (SP).

So you started out with a 13 X 327 W contract at $4.00/Watt (?) ~ = $17,000, got a free panel, kept the $17K price and brought the per Watt price down to (13/14) X$4.00 = $3.71/Watt ? Seems like a good deal to me. Be prepared to provide the installers name for a bunch of other San Diego posters looking for what is pretty close to LG pricing for S.P. equipment.

Also, that $3.71/$3.63 premium for S.P. looks pretty good at ~ 2% or a bit more over LG. Compared to other S.P. quotes and systems, you got a steal. Care to share the vendor's name now ? It'll sure lower some prices around here for everyone if you do.

Something however, still does not seem quite right with the statement about 10% annual output decrease in San Diego. I haven't seen a 10% decrease in irradiance for the 30 months or so I've been measuring it.

[MKI]

So you started out with a 13 X 327 W contract at $4.00/Watt (?) ~ = $17,000, got a free panel, kept the $17K price and brought the per Watt price down to (13/14) X$4.00 = $3.71/Watt ?

Something however, still does not seem quite right with the statement about 10% annual output decrease in San Diego. I haven't seen a 10% decrease in irradiance for the 30 months or so I've been measuring it.

Hi JPM,

You are correct with our pricing. The company we are working with told me the software used to quote Sunpower's estimated output was updated in mid-December. The update decreased our estimated output figures by ~ 10%, which concerned us. We are very impressed that they added the panel without us requesting it. It says a lot about the company.

Around the same time that we signed our contract, our friend signed a contract with a different installer for 15-SP 327 panels with Solaredge at a price of $3.82/DC, so maybe the price on these panels are coming down. Both installers are reputable companies with a long history as electrical contractors. I should state that I did not create a bidding war between companies and just asked them for their lowest price. My friend, on the other hand, asked companies to bid against each other.

I would not have received such a great price with such a reputable company without this forum.

[J.P.M.]

Hi JPM,

You are correct with our pricing. The company we are working with told me the software used to quote Sunpower's estimated output was updated in mid-December. The update decreased our estimated output figures by ~ 10%, which concerned us. We are very impressed that they added the panel without us requesting it. It says a lot about the company.

Around the same time that we signed our contract, our friend signed a contract with a different installer for 15-SP 327 panels with Solaredge at a price of $3.82/DC, so maybe the price on these panels are coming down. Both installers are reputable companies with a long history as electrical contractors. I should state that I did not create a bidding war between companies and just asked them for their lowest price. My friend, on the other hand, asked companies to bid against each other.

I would not have received such a great price with such a reputable company without this forum.

Thank you for the info.

If you fess up with a vendor's name, others may be able to garner a better price for whatever panel they choose. At $3.82/Watt, S.P.'s getting pretty close to cost competitive. I've not had an eyeball on a S.P. contract that low yet.