San Marcos San Diego new System Quick

[J.P.M.]

JPM - I'm guessing you're generally not the life of parties? (me neither) Not the first time you've defended your SDG&E, and not the first time you've resorted to name calling when you didn't agree with someone. If you read my posts on SDG&E, you will see that I am fairly (not fully) knowledgeable of their history and how they got to where they are but I'd be happy to learn more. If you didn't work for them, you must have a relative, or know someone, or own shares, in any case come clean because you are quite alone cheering them on this forum. Regarding reducing our electric bill, what should we all do? Huddle around a lone LED bulb and listen to a crank radio? Lastly, to clarify, it's not "over-sizing", it's "RIGHT-SIZING", which does NOT include earning 4c kwh (sensij and thejq went off track on that one, not me).

Funny though, a couple months ago I believe Sensij was posting not to take out tier 1 at all, now his calculations may indicate he is? even at a $3.80/kw system cost? Less than eight year payback and that's pretax, I'd take that! (oh yeah, I already did).

I would like it if you would fill me in on an instance where I resorted to name calling that was abusive and directed at an individual. When I criticize or comment, it's with respect to opinions and positions, not people. Unlike you, I try to always be respectful, if somewhat graphic at times. I'd appreciate it if, in the future, you do not accuse me of things I did not write. If you do not like what I write, I suggest you get a thicker skin, but don't reinterpret or take what I write out of context, or simply misrepresent my words to fit your view of reality.

As for any alleged association w/ SDG & E you accuse me of, other than some positions some of my owned ETF's or sector mutual funds may have in Sempra energy, I have none.

Not that it's any of your or anyone else's business, but until about 6 months ago, I had significant positions (for me anyway) in Sunpower and SolarCity - readers of this forum might fill you in on what I have suggested, and still suggest, others do with respect to those companies' products. As Michael Corleone said, it's not personal, it's just business.

Say/write what you want and disagree with me as you please, but know that I consider questioning or implying that my opinions' veracity and my motives are based on some financial interest you have invented for me is something I consider an insult, and abusive behavior. As for not being the life of the party, opinions vary, but in any case, that aspect of my life has nothing to do with the sign over the door that says "Solar Panel Talk". More adolescent sniping ?

Stop doing it.

If you do not I will follow published forum protocol and report such of your actions as I consider abusive, libelous and defamatory to the administrators.

As for your views about solar energy and the like, I believe your opinions are ill informed, shortsighted, ignorant, juvenile and self serving. As such, I believe your advice is therefore usually much the same.

FWIW, I forgot more about solar energy than you're likely to even imagine for some time to come.

[cebury]

Back to the topic of helping the OP decide on system sizing... I went the approach of trying to cover about 100% less the $120/minimum. There were personal reasons, mostly on the DW side, why we chose this instead of just off-setting Tier 2+. I stopped stressing over future-proofing because there are always energy efficiency reductions available of which some may be as cost effective as adding the extra couple of solar panels. Such examples for you may include envelope sealing, attic insulation, cool-roof (when you replace it), etc.

[deyounte]

JPM - I'm guessing you're generally not the life of parties? (me neither) Not the first time you've defended your SDG&E, and not the first time you've resorted to name calling when you didn't agree with someone. If you read my posts on SDG&E, you will see that I am fairly (not fully) knowledgeable of their history and how they got to where they are but I'd be happy to learn more. If you didn't work for them, you must have a relative, or know someone, or own shares, in any case come clean because you are quite alone cheering them on this forum. Regarding reducing our electric bill, what should we all do? Huddle around a lone LED bulb and listen to a crank radio? Lastly, to clarify, it's not "over-sizing", it's "RIGHT-SIZING", which does NOT include earning 4c kwh (sensij and thejq went off track on that one, not me).

Funny though, a couple months ago I believe Sensij was posting not to take out tier 1 at all, now his calculations may indicate he is? even at a $3.80/kw system cost? Less than eight year payback and that's pretax, I'd take that! (oh yeah, I already did).

I kinda thought that J.P.M.'s post was not trying to denigrate anyone else or to even support the POCO. I rather "Liked" his post as I thought it was well thought out and balanced IMHO. I think there are other posts here with differing and valid points of view, but the differing posters are talking about different parts of the elephant. I.e. There is the purely financial aspect and then their is the "peace of mind" aspect. I took both into consideration when sizing my system and in the end I slightly over-sized my system (turned on yesterday BTW) because I wanted the "peace of mind". For me the choice to even get the system wasn't purely financial because in my state I'm paying $0.11/kWh and the only external incentive is the Fed credit. I.e. I'm doing it in part because it is fun. (Note though that a lot here don't factor in the increase in value of their home - but I admit it is hard to measure.) In short I did my due diligence and ran the numbers. My raw payback is out there quite a way. My total payback if you factor in some modest increase in the home value is more realistic, but still not in the realm of "good investment" if you compare other ways for me to invest my money.

BTW, in some ways I've been wrestling with the pig too, but I think we're both enjoying it.... lol. I'm having fun. Go ahead and talk about that guys!

Sincerely and with kindness,

Tim D.
Melbourne, FL

[Willaby]

I would like it if you would fill me in on an instance where I resorted to name calling that was abusive and directed at an individual. When I criticize or comment, it's with respect to opinions and positions, not people. Unlike you, I try to always be respectful, if somewhat graphic at times. I'd appreciate it if, in the future, you do not accuse me of things I did not write. If you do not like what I write, I suggest you get a thicker skin, but don't reinterpret or take what I write out of context, or simply misrepresent my words to fit your view of reality.

As for any alleged association w/ SDG & E you accuse me of, other than some positions some of my owned ETF's or sector mutual funds may have in Sempra energy, I have none.

Not that it's any of your or anyone else's business, but until about 6 months ago, I had significant positions (for me anyway) in Sunpower and SolarCity - readers of this forum might fill you in on what I have suggested, and still suggest, others do with respect to those companies' products. As Michael Corleone said, it's not personal, it's just business.

Say/write what you want and disagree with me as you please, but know that I consider questioning or implying that my opinions' veracity and my motives are based on some financial interest you have invented for me is something I consider an insult, and abusive behavior. As for not being the life of the party, opinions vary, but in any case, that aspect of my life has nothing to do with the sign over the door that says "Solar Panel Talk". More adolescent sniping ?

Stop doing it.

If you do not I will follow published forum protocol and report such of your actions as I consider abusive, libelous and defamatory to the administrators.

As for your views about solar energy and the like, I believe your opinions are ill informed, shortsighted, ignorant, juvenile and self serving. As such, I believe your advice is therefore usually much the same.

FWIW, I forgot more about solar energy than you're likely to even imagine for some time to come.

You've got to be kidding. Name calling? (see your 2nd to last sentence, let alone other posts). Your entire response shows your thin skin. Please, report me to the admin, be sure to be specific, which posts, etc. Do us both a favor, hit the "ignore" button with my name on it. I only post to you in responses, so maybe you can stop doing that. Although a further waste of my time, with all your so call vast knowledge, you have not specifically cited any advice I've given as bad.

btw, I'm showing off my system to a forum member this weekend. We'll laugh about this.

[Willaby]

I kinda thought that J.P.M.'s post was not trying to denigrate anyone else or to even support the POCO. I rather "Liked" his post as I thought it was well thought out and balanced IMHO. I think there are other posts here with differing and valid points of view, but the differing posters are talking about different parts of the elephant. I.e. There is the purely financial aspect and then their is the "peace of mind" aspect. I took both into consideration when sizing my system and in the end I slightly over-sized my system (turned on yesterday BTW) because I wanted the "peace of mind". For me the choice to even get the system wasn't purely financial because in my state I'm paying $0.11/kWh and the only external incentive is the Fed credit. I.e. I'm doing it in part because it is fun. (Note though that a lot here don't factor in the increase in value of their home - but I admit it is hard to measure.) In short I did my due diligence and ran the numbers. My raw payback is out there quite a way. My total payback if you factor in some modest increase in the home value is more realistic, but still not in the realm of "good investment" if you compare other ways for me to invest my money.

BTW, in some ways I've been wrestling with the pig too, but I think we're both enjoying it.... lol. I'm having fun. Go ahead and talk about that guys!

Sincerely and with kindness,

Tim D.
Melbourne, FL

You gotta see other posts too. There's a couple of bad ones imo, but it's cumulative. Our SDG&E is the worst for many reasons and I am vocal about it. Mr JPM is the only one who defends them, and often. Somehow it touches a nerve. I'd be better off if he just hit the "ignore" button for my name. Typically I ignore his posts except he too often responds to mine.

[J.P.M.]

You've got to be kidding. Name calling? (see your 2nd to last sentence, let alone other posts). Your entire response shows your thin skin. Please, report me to the admin, be sure to be specific, which posts, etc. Do us both a favor, hit the "ignore" button with my name on it. I only post to you in responses, so maybe you can stop doing that. Although a further waste of my time, with all your so call vast knowledge, you have not specifically cited any advice I've given as bad.

btw, I'm showing off my system to a forum member this weekend. We'll laugh about this.

As I might gather from your reference to my 2d last sentence, we seem to have a different interpretation of name calling.

As I've done with all your posts, I'll only respond if/when you post something that I believe is incorrect, dangerous or that I may simply disagree with, and only then to perhaps flag other readers of the possible danger or possible bad out outcomes lurking in your mental spoor, or perhaps and simply just another take on a subject.

It's a pleasure ignoring you. However, I think a lot of your opinions are worthy of comment to flag others as to different and I think perhaps more thoughtful ways to approach a situation. Otherwise, I'll not waste my time.

As usual, take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[Willaby]

As I might gather from your reference to my 2d last sentence, we seem to have a different interpretation of name calling.

As I've done with all your posts, I'll only respond if/when you post something that I believe is incorrect, dangerous or that I may simply disagree with, and only then to perhaps flag other readers of the possible danger or possible bad out outcomes lurking in your mental spoor, or perhaps and simply just another take on a subject.

It's a pleasure ignoring you. However, I think a lot of your opinions are worthy of comment to flag others as to different and I think perhaps more thoughtful ways to approach a situation. Otherwise, I'll not waste my time.

As usual, take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

FIRST - I sent a PM to the OP apologizing for this exchange, but sorry again here also in case you don't get the notification (I don't get them), and also see my offer since we are neighbors.

Yes, JPM, that is "name calling" and here's why: No one else on this entire forum that I've seen calls other members "ignorant", "juvenile", "shortsighted" etc, etc, in any context at all, let alone without citing specific statements anyone has made. No one else does this and you should refrain from doing so. You don't just disagree, you shout me down by name calling, even on differences of opinion. This is where you need to be careful of being "libelous and defamatory". Even Sensij, the overall smartest guy on this forum (imo, but don't tell him I said so), whom I disagree with at times (he was far off-topic going down the 4c ROI path) doesn't stoop low as you do. The worst I've heard from him was something like "gobiligock". So challenge me, cite me and tell me I'm wrong, even educate me (you have!), but no need for all the name calling.

Your hot button is SDG&E and I can't figure that out. I've done my research (still more to go) and I will continue to claim them as the worst of all and I will cite reasons why (any chance that Mr. Knight will end up BACK at the CPUC?).

[sensij]

There is the purely financial aspect and then their is the "peace of mind" aspect. I took both into consideration when sizing my system and in the end I slightly over-sized my system (turned on yesterday BTW) because I wanted the "peace of mind". <snip> In short I did my due diligence and ran the numbers. My raw payback is out there quite a way. My total payback if you factor in some modest increase in the home value is more realistic, but still not in the realm of "good investment" if you compare other ways for me to invest my money.

I don't think you'll find any posts in which I've stated that a particular array size is dogmatically correct for everyone considering solar. What you've posted here is similar to how many people eventually size their array, and I fully support the freedom for anyone to make their system as big or as small as they'd like. However, there is a common belief that a "correctly" or "properly" sized array achieves 100% offset. My posts on this subject are intended to challenge that belief, by showing that from a financial point of view, it is difficult to come up with a reasonable set of assumptions about the future that makes it true.

In this thread in particular, there was some discussion of the minimum bill and how to consider it in array sizing, for which I could demonstrate how stark the payback gets for increases in array size that offset energy paid for by the minimum bill. There are ways in which the example I presented is simplistic, and I really encourage anyone who wants to understand the financial consequences of their decision to go solar to take a much closer look at expected generation or consumption on at least a monthly basis, but perhaps even hourly or sub-hourly for consideration of TOU rates (as they are designed now and also how they are projected to change).

Going solar doesn't have to be a financial only decision. However, most who are seriously considering solar have an expectation of some kind of financial return, and are starting from what is frequently a misinformed idea of "financially optimal" based on what they've been told by a salesperson or read in a poorly thought out forum post . Want 100% offset for non-financial reasons? Go for it... just know that it is not likely to be a sizing strategy that minimizes the cost of energy over a 10 or 15 year timespan.

There are many products in the world sold as cheap insurance, and in some cases, buying that insurance can be a great decision. Collectively, in most cases, the party benefiting from that insurance the most is the one selling it, not the one buying it. Like any insurance, the cost of buying it should be weighed against that risks of not having it and the peace of mind it provides. To me, paying for baseline tier electricity is not a catastrophic outcome worth insuring against, but like most extended warranties, I would not object to those who consciously choose to buy it for peace of mind despite the poor outlook for actual financial benefit.

I would also challenge the suggestion that *now* is the best time that will ever exist to install solar, and therefore it is better to go big now than to wait until some point in the future when the range of cost effectiveness assumptions have narrowed. For sure, there are incentives that may not be available soon that could make *now* better than 3 years from now. However, if you look at projections on installation costs over time used by those in the industry (Attachment A), you'll see expected drops in price of over 40% over the next 10 years, which could potentially compensate for the loss of the ITC, and perhaps even structural changes to NEM. 10 years from now, my guess is that we'll be having much more serious conversations about the cost effectiveness of local energy storage for peak demand shaving, and very little of the equipment being sold today supports it. The idea of "future-proofing" using today's equipment seems like a non-sequitor to me. I'd rather spend as little is as possible today in a way that maximizes my chances of getting a positive return on what is invested, and keep my powder dry for modifications to the system in the future that benefit from the inevitable changes in technology over time.

[sensij]

(he was far off-topic going down the 4c ROI path) .

What are you talking about? I only mentioned the 0.04/kWh excess compensation credit in passing, but went into detail evaluating the case of a system sized to cover the energy that is being paid for by the minimum charge, a 9756/9900 = 98%-99% offset sizing scenario. The excess compensation credit doesn't apply in that scenario.

[deyounte]

I don't think you'll find any posts in which I've stated that a particular array size is dogmatically correct for everyone considering solar. What you've posted here is similar to how many people eventually size their array, and I fully support the freedom for anyone to make their system as big or as small as they'd like. However, there is a common belief that a "correctly" or "properly" sized array achieves 100% offset. My posts on this subject are intended to challenge that belief, by showing that from a financial point of view, it is difficult to come up with a reasonable set of assumptions about the future that makes it true.

I agree with you whole heartedly. You are so much more eloquent than I.

Tim D.
Melbourne, FL

[Willaby]

What are you talking about? I only mentioned the 0.04/kWh excess compensation credit in passing, but went into detail evaluating the case of a system sized to cover the energy that is being paid for by the minimum charge, a 9756/9900 = 98%-99% offset sizing scenario. The excess compensation credit doesn't apply in that scenario.

Then you shouldn't have quoted me. Not only did you quote me, you partially quoted me, then addressed with a detailed post about something I would be against. So I blame you for JPM getting mad at me

[J.P.M.]

Then you shouldn't have quoted me. Not only did you quote me, you partially quoted me, then addressed with a detailed post about something I would be against. So I blame you for JPM getting mad at me

I don't get mad. Dogs get mad. The most I get is angry but I pick my targets very carefully and you ain't one of'em.

[J.P.M.]

FIRST - I sent a PM to the OP apologizing for this exchange, but sorry again here also in case you don't get the notification (I don't get them), and also see my offer since we are neighbors.

Yes, JPM, that is "name calling" and here's why: No one else on this entire forum that I've seen calls other members "ignorant", "juvenile", "shortsighted" etc, etc, in any context at all, let alone without citing specific statements anyone has made. No one else does this and you should refrain from doing so. You don't just disagree, you shout me down by name calling, even on differences of opinion. This is where you need to be careful of being "libelous and defamatory". Even Sensij, the overall smartest guy on this forum (imo, but don't tell him I said so), whom I disagree with at times (he was far off-topic going down the 4c ROI path) doesn't stoop low as you do. The worst I've heard from him was something like "gobiligock". So challenge me, cite me and tell me I'm wrong, even educate me (you have!), but no need for all the name calling.

Your hot button is SDG&E and I can't figure that out. I've done my research (still more to go) and I will continue to claim them as the worst of all and I will cite reasons why (any chance that Mr. Knight will end up BACK at the CPUC?).

Read what I wrote. I refer to opinions - not individuals. Learn the difference, read, think and understand. Makes no difference to me what you think or how you (mis)interpret what I write as long as you do not (re)interpret it and spread it around.

[thejq]

Now it's a good time for the moderator to lock this thread. It's going way off topic. Let's all agree to disagree and leave it like that.

[katass1031]

If it's ok, I'd like to ask a question or two more.

I had another company come out and during the discussion, I got confused as he started talking about the output AC numbers vs my power needs. So, basically he used the system power in DC to say that my system would then produce so much power AC and use that to calculate it to my 9900 kWh/year.

From what I gather in PV Watts just using my SE roofing, a 5.75 kW DC system would give me 9700 kWh/yr. He quoted a 6.46kw system and I asked him why it was so big, and he went back to the AC numbers.

Thoughts?