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  • J.P.M.
    Solar Fanatic
    • Aug 2013
    • 15026

    #76
    Originally posted by sensij

    I'm pretty sure this guy is lying to you. Look at the data sheets on those panels... the 327 uses Gen II cells, the 345 uses Gen III. They are definitely not the same thing.
    While out/out lying is certainly a possibility, and without trying to semantically differentiate fly crap from pepper, I'd bet on some form of ignorant repeating going on.

    In either/any case, while I believe the S.P. published data is technically correct and would stand up to technical scrutiny, I'd look for subtle changes in the data from one panel/cell data to the next that could be explained, for example, by a combination of measurement, or mfg./measurement tolerances or definition, or other things.

    Maybe my cynicism has the best of me, but my money is on S.P., like most everyone else, trying to get the most from pushing the new/improved peddling line from evolutionary improvements while rotating/moving inventory, and also perhaps as a way to allow some wider variation in mfg. tolerances. Or, all that and other things. It's just business.

    Since, while it's possible for consumers to run side/side tests on panels, I bet it hasn't and won't happen, making any price/Watt diff. between 310's, 327's, 335's and 345's somewhat academic.

    In the sense that, say, a 6 kW array of most any panel from any mfg. will have about equal annual output, a 6 kW array of 310's or 345's ought to be priced at the same $$/Watt, with MAYBE some slight S.P. premium for any S.P. panel size, but no more$/Watt for a 310 than a 345, perhaps until the panel STC rating can change the # of panels for a particular duty or array size.

    Comment

    • sensij
      Solar Fanatic
      • Sep 2014
      • 5074

      #77
      Originally posted by Willaby
      I'd be more concerned with Enphase not being around awhile since they are now effectively a penny stock, but SolarEdge could be close behind and with 30 years to go who knows? I wouldn't be too concerned with getting replacements or parts, etc. There is enough out there and someone somewhere will repair them or hold new old stock of them. They'd likely be a bit more expensive, but attainable. More likely, the companies will get acquired and/or compatibles will be available, from LG, for example. You can still get tubes for radios and tv's that haven't been made since the 50's-70's. Many are still made.
      Replacing an optimizer is not the same thing as replacing hardware on old electronics. The communication system between the optimizers and the inverter is necessary and proprietary, and if SolarEdge gets bought out / goes under, I wouldn't count on replacements being available. Look what happened to Zep frames... Need a replacement... go through SolarCity, maybe, otherwise you are out of luck.

      Enphase stock is getting smacked around, but I wouldn't read too much into that as a measure of the long term health of the company. The stock market isn't known for very efficient pricing.
      CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

      Comment

      • Willaby
        Solar Fanatic
        • Jun 2015
        • 205

        #78
        Originally posted by sensij

        Replacing an optimizer is not the same thing as replacing hardware on old electronics. The communication system between the optimizers and the inverter is necessary and proprietary, and if SolarEdge gets bought out / goes under, I wouldn't count on replacements being available. Look what happened to Zep frames... Need a replacement... go through SolarCity, maybe, otherwise you are out of luck.

        Enphase stock is getting smacked around, but I wouldn't read too much into that as a measure of the long term health of the company. The stock market isn't known for very efficient pricing.
        Really? didn't realize I should have mentioned tubes and optimizers are not the same level of technology, but guess I'm a target for nitpicking lately. Maybe a better analogy: I can still buy brand new, original, shrink wrapped copy of MS DOS in volume, it is still used and I can still get someone to support it. Maybe not as prolific, but both Enphase and SolarEdge have achieved the volume required to be supported for a decade or two plus should things go south. Now, I wouldn't be against keeping a $65 P400 in reserve as cheap insurance, but maybe you have a table that shows otherwise?

        Enphase smacked around after an 80% drop? That's one way to put it. Stock Market not known for very efficient pricing? I'll leave that one alone so as not to go off topic.

        Comment

        • sensij
          Solar Fanatic
          • Sep 2014
          • 5074

          #79
          Originally posted by Willaby
          Now, I wouldn't be against keeping a $65 P400 in reserve as cheap insurance.
          Yes, this is a good idea, in my opinion. I don't plan on buying spares for my own system until SolarEdge does actually get bought out or fail, but expect it will happen someday.
          CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

          Comment

          • Willaby
            Solar Fanatic
            • Jun 2015
            • 205

            #80
            Originally posted by sensij

            Yes, this is a good idea, in my opinion. I don't plan on buying spares for my own system until SolarEdge does actually get bought out or fail, but expect it will happen someday.
            I've been thinking that SolarEdge & Enphase could use their own thread in another topic, opinions on longevity, as an investment, future risk, etc. Doesn't need to be just those two, but they dominate right now and being public, they are highly visible.

            Comment

            • solar pete
              Administrator
              • May 2014
              • 1836

              #81
              Originally posted by J.P.M.

              To be clear, S.P. panels are mostly made in the Philippines, Malaysia and S. Africa. They have a small mfg. facility in Milpitas, CA. They are majority owned my the French energy (oil) co. Total.
              Thanks for clearing that up J.P.M my bad thought they were all made in the states

              Comment

              • J.P.M.
                Solar Fanatic
                • Aug 2013
                • 15026

                #82
                Originally posted by solar pete

                Thanks for clearing that up J.P.M my bad thought they were all made in the states
                You're welcome.

                Comment

                • Ian S
                  Solar Fanatic
                  • Sep 2011
                  • 1879

                  #83
                  Interesting discussion! I won't comment on the sizing discussion except to say that what's optimal will also vary on location, individual usage and power company. Arizona for example already has higher minimum monthly fees and is looking at both increasing them (well beyond what the Cali utilities are proposing) and/or moving everybody to a combined TOU/Demand rate structure. The latter structure has been adopted by SRP and has resulted in a dramatic reduction of solar installs.

                  As for the quotes, if the Sunpower panels are indeed the model claimed, then I'd lean toward them. That's a great price for a panel with a great warranty and a lower degradation rate than the competition. If you're worried about the longevity of a company like Solar Edge, then why not just go with a string inverter like SMA? You don't appear to have shade issues. As for location of the inverter, I'd opt for inside if possible to keep them out of the elements. YMMV especially if your interior location gets terribly hot.

                  FWIW, today's output edged just above 28 kWh which is the highest output this close to the winter solstice since they were installed in May 2012. I don't think I've washed them this year. Every time I think I need to, it rains LOL!

                  Comment

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