Issues with Solar Company

[Tanya]

Solarworld is the brand. Find a number related to that

For example sw280 mono or sw260

Might even have a w at the end (260w)

It says the system has 250 watt solar modules. Other than that it doesn't say anything about SolarWorld.

[sensij]

That's the offer we got from them and of course we'll take it. Basically, we can remove the egg from our face without going to court and throw good money after bad. So you're saying we should expect to pay around $3.75 per watt of energy output for our next system. Anything else we need to know or should be aware of? I'm assuming we need around double the amount of solar panels than we have now.

There is a lot you need to be aware of, and your assumptions are not good. You don't *need* anything... installing solar or not is, for most, about trying to reduce the cost of electricity.

Let's look at the system you have.

Cost was something like $12800. Knock off 30% federal tax credit means you had about $8960 out of pocket, and LADWP had been offering a $0.40 / W rebate as well, knocking another 3000 W * $0.40 = $1200 off, bringing the total out of pocket to $7760.

Your system produced 3789 kWh, and I can see that your upper tier electricity in the summer is about $0.215/kWh. Let's say the average cost of the electricity offset by your array is $0.20/kWh. 0.20 * 3789 = $758.

You can calculate the simple payback of your system by dividing your out of pocket cost by the amount saved per year... 7760 / 758 = ~10.2 years. Not great, but not bad considering the knowledge you had going into this, many out there are installing systems with payback much worse.

Now, let's look at what happens if you want to pursue an expansion to achieve 8000 kWh offset. The average cost of the electricity you will offset will drop from $0.20 / kWh to probably around $0.16 / kWh, about 20%. That means the payback on the rest of the system, all else being equal, goes from 10 years to 12 years. Not good.

What is most concerning is the output... <4000 kWh from an array close to 3 kW is not very good yield. That suggests the panels were put up at a less than optimal orientation, or maybe receive shading. However, those panels are already on the best part of your roof (presumably), and any additional panels are likely to yield even less, further hurting the payback.

Unless you are willing to really take the time to understand what's going on, I'd suggest that you install nothing else. Whatever concession you got by complaining will certainly pull your payback time to under 10 years, which is about as good as most people can get. Your system really wasn't awful.. maybe not as good as some, but not as bad as many others, either.

[NorCalX]

Solarworld is the brand. Find a number related to that

For example sw280 mono or sw260

Might even have a w at the end (260w)

[J.P.M.]

Well, then hopefully our experience serves others not to make the same mistake. Above you were talking about limitations of a system and what to watch out for. Would you care to elaborate?

I'm not sure this is the proper venue for an epistle. Best answer and suggestion I can respectfully make to your question is to download a copy of "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies" and read it. Knowledge is power.

You may have been taken advantage of because of your ignorance, but I'd guess you had little to no idea of what you were buying or it's limitations. The possibility your were ripped off is not your responsibility, and that whole situation sucks. Big time.

However, the responsibility for the ignorance that enabled such a situation to exist is, IMO, yours.

Once more, I'd guess, like me, many/most here are about 110+% on your side, but your willful ignorance had a big hand in what's developed up to now.

[Tanya]

This is a bad comedy sketch with the miscommunication

I dont think you understand what the system is

Do you know what your 12 panels are?

Brand and model?

I'll tell you system from that

For example, if they put 12 canadian solar 260s you would have 12x260=3.12kw system

If those assumptions are correct you paid approx. 4.16 per watt (13k / 3.12kw)

That is decent pricing from a big name for small system size....they just undersized it. And I'm shocked they would refund.

*All of those are guesstimates

Not trying to be funny. The paperwork states it's the Power Saver Series 3000 with Enphase Micro Inverters and the module is SolarWorld. Does that help?

[Tanya]

I can't believe it wouldn't be more worth it to them to strike up a deal that works for both sides? To remove the system is going to take some work, and now they have to patch up your roof back to how it was. And at the end of the day they end up with year old used equipment.

12 panels, at a guess of 250W per panel, means a 3.0Kw system. At almost $13,000 comes out to around $4.25/watt, which is high no doubt (I assume you paid cash?) but for such a small system I can certainly understand it, especially in California.

On your next go around, I wouldn't really expect to pay that much less given the somewhat small system size still (6.0kW). Maybe around $3.75 per watt? Possibly lower? Others in your area can chime in but bottom line is that you'll still end up paying somewhere around $22,000 or so, or about $10,000 more than you paid so far. Again I'm surprised the company who already put the solar on your roof wouldn't be willing to work something out vs costing them money to take the system down.

That's the offer we got from them and of course we'll take it. Basically, we can remove the egg from our face without going to court and throw good money after bad. So you're saying we should expect to pay around $3.75 per watt of energy output for our next system. Anything else we need to know or should be aware of? I'm assuming we need around double the amount of solar panels than we have now.

[NorCalX]

This is a bad comedy sketch with the miscommunication

I dont think you understand what the system is

Do you know what your 12 panels are?

Brand and model?

I'll tell you system from that

For example, if they put 12 canadian solar 260s you would have 12x260=3.12kw system

If those assumptions are correct you paid approx. 4.16 per watt (13k / 3.12kw)

That is decent pricing from a big name for small system size....they just undersized it. And I'm shocked they would refund.

*All of those are guesstimates

[HX_Guy]

Thanks for the clarification. Actually the offer of the refund came yesterday, but they sent it to my husband's email address, so I didn't know about it until today. I thought I was clear about the size of the system before. We have 12 solar panels and they produce not even 4000 kWh, which is too little for our energy needs. We need over 8000 kWh. What else do you need to know?

Tanya that doesn't tell us that much about system size, but its understandable coming from a homeowner who isn't really all that familiar with solar technology.

12 panels could mean a 3.0kW system or it could mean 4.02kW or anywhere in between. Its not only the number of panels that matters but what the panel rating is (250W, 275W, 327W etc).

[HX_Guy]

They'll be taking the system off our house. We currently have 12 solar panels. The almost 13K we paid was before tax credits. So, I'm assuming -- for our next go around -- we need around 24 panels to get our energy needs met.

I can't believe it wouldn't be more worth it to them to strike up a deal that works for both sides? To remove the system is going to take some work, and now they have to patch up your roof back to how it was. And at the end of the day they end up with year old used equipment.

12 panels, at a guess of 250W per panel, means a 3.0Kw system. At almost $13,000 comes out to around $4.25/watt, which is high no doubt (I assume you paid cash?) but for such a small system I can certainly understand it, especially in California.

On your next go around, I wouldn't really expect to pay that much less given the somewhat small system size still (6.0kW). Maybe around $3.75 per watt? Possibly lower? Others in your area can chime in but bottom line is that you'll still end up paying somewhere around $22,000 or so, or about $10,000 more than you paid so far. Again I'm surprised the company who already put the solar on your roof wouldn't be willing to work something out vs costing them money to take the system down.

[Tanya]

This has been a very odd thread. Multiple requests about your system size are pending and you have an offer of a full refund on thanksgiving day seemingly out of the blue.

Not how things normally play out

Thanks for the clarification. Actually the offer of the refund came yesterday, but they sent it to my husband's email address, so I didn't know about it until today. I thought I was clear about the size of the system before. We have 12 solar panels and they produce not even 4000 kWh, which is too little for our energy needs. We need over 8000 kWh. What else do you need to know?

[NorCalX]

Errr... huh?

This has been a very odd thread. Multiple requests about your system size are pending and you have an offer of a full refund on thanksgiving day seemingly out of the blue.

Not how things normally play out

[Tanya]

I'm expecting ashton kutcher to pop up now any second

Errr... huh?

[Tanya]

They are refunding you in full? Do you get to keep the system or are they taking it off your house?

This is a strange situation as a system that is only producing 3,789kWh per year has to be pretty small, probably in the range of 2.5kW? Maybe even less? That's something like 10 panels. How many panels are on your roof?

Is the $12,000 before or after tax credits?

They'll be taking the system off our house. We currently have 12 solar panels. The almost 13K we paid was before tax credits. So, I'm assuming -- for our next go around -- we need around 24 panels to get our energy needs met.

[NorCalX]

I'm expecting ashton kutcher to pop up now any second

[HX_Guy]

So, here is an update: The company just offered to refund us! Yippeee! If we go down the solar panel road again -- which we really want to -- can anyone give us a bullet point list of things they'd suggest we watch out for? That would be much appreciated. Thanks to everyone for their advice and input.

They are refunding you in full? Do you get to keep the system or are they taking it off your house?

This is a strange situation as a system that is only producing 3,789kWh per year has to be pretty small, probably in the range of 2.5kW? Maybe even less? That's something like 10 panels. How many panels are on your roof?

Is the $12,000 before or after tax credits?