Issues with Solar Company

[Raul]

The system says MAX 125 AMPS. According to the LADWP our yearly energy needs are 8927 kWh. But the system only produces 3789 kWh.

That's a start ; so your system is producing 3789kwh per year. What the size of the installed system and what's the estimated yearly production for said system on paper from your installer?
Have patience , there are very knolegeable people in here and they will help you .

[Living Large]

But is this really the same thing as buying a used car? (Where everybody assumes they're being ripped off and don't believe a word the salesman says anyway.) Or is this more akin to hiring a construction company -- where you assume they know what they're talking about? I know, I know... largely philosophical discussion... I'm just really pissed off.

I was not trying to obfuscate the discussion, or say buying a used car and new solar system are the same. My point was what is in writing, which we still don't know. What is in writing that you feel can be used to substantiate that you were defrauded or "ripped off"? You have a system that is working. What were you quoted on paper, and how does it differ from what you received? You posted some details, but not enough. You seem to be hanging your hat on the verbal comment of the salesperson so far.

I would counter that hiring a construction company and a company that provides equipment that will allow you to generate energy from the sun are fairly different.

Regarding your statement that you assumed they would "know what they are talking about" - here is one - what about buying a dog from a dog breeder? Far too many people assume that a dog breeder knows what they are doing and are reputable. Then they pay 3x what is average for something deemed to be rare, and get a dog with a birth defect or poor temperament, often with bills that exceed the cost of the dog, and feel like they were ripped off. Many of them were ripped off by people who knew they were out to defraud others. I bought a dog from a breeder after doing a lot of research, and finding a breeder whom I trusted after 3 hours of discussion. We're 6 years in with a perfectly healthy dog.

There are bad actors in just about every field. Let's say this guy did represent the 80% offset. What is on paper that supports that? I don't yet see that this company ripped you off or defrauded you, but that may have happened.

edit You appear to have located a flak jacket or found some TSIAB. Excellent.

[Tanya]

Update!

So, here is an update: The company just offered to refund us! Yippeee! If we go down the solar panel road again -- which we really want to -- can anyone give us a bullet point list of things they'd suggest we watch out for? That would be much appreciated. Thanks to everyone for their advice and input.

[HX_Guy]

So, here is an update: The company just offered to refund us! Yippeee! If we go down the solar panel road again -- which we really want to -- can anyone give us a bullet point list of things they'd suggest we watch out for? That would be much appreciated. Thanks to everyone for their advice and input.

They are refunding you in full? Do you get to keep the system or are they taking it off your house?

This is a strange situation as a system that is only producing 3,789kWh per year has to be pretty small, probably in the range of 2.5kW? Maybe even less? That's something like 10 panels. How many panels are on your roof?

Is the $12,000 before or after tax credits?

[NorCalX]

I'm expecting ashton kutcher to pop up now any second

[Tanya]

They are refunding you in full? Do you get to keep the system or are they taking it off your house?

This is a strange situation as a system that is only producing 3,789kWh per year has to be pretty small, probably in the range of 2.5kW? Maybe even less? That's something like 10 panels. How many panels are on your roof?

Is the $12,000 before or after tax credits?

They'll be taking the system off our house. We currently have 12 solar panels. The almost 13K we paid was before tax credits. So, I'm assuming -- for our next go around -- we need around 24 panels to get our energy needs met.

[Tanya]

I'm expecting ashton kutcher to pop up now any second

Errr... huh?

[NorCalX]

Errr... huh?

This has been a very odd thread. Multiple requests about your system size are pending and you have an offer of a full refund on thanksgiving day seemingly out of the blue.

Not how things normally play out

[Tanya]

This has been a very odd thread. Multiple requests about your system size are pending and you have an offer of a full refund on thanksgiving day seemingly out of the blue.

Not how things normally play out

Thanks for the clarification. Actually the offer of the refund came yesterday, but they sent it to my husband's email address, so I didn't know about it until today. I thought I was clear about the size of the system before. We have 12 solar panels and they produce not even 4000 kWh, which is too little for our energy needs. We need over 8000 kWh. What else do you need to know?

[HX_Guy]

They'll be taking the system off our house. We currently have 12 solar panels. The almost 13K we paid was before tax credits. So, I'm assuming -- for our next go around -- we need around 24 panels to get our energy needs met.

I can't believe it wouldn't be more worth it to them to strike up a deal that works for both sides? To remove the system is going to take some work, and now they have to patch up your roof back to how it was. And at the end of the day they end up with year old used equipment.

12 panels, at a guess of 250W per panel, means a 3.0Kw system. At almost $13,000 comes out to around $4.25/watt, which is high no doubt (I assume you paid cash?) but for such a small system I can certainly understand it, especially in California.

On your next go around, I wouldn't really expect to pay that much less given the somewhat small system size still (6.0kW). Maybe around $3.75 per watt? Possibly lower? Others in your area can chime in but bottom line is that you'll still end up paying somewhere around $22,000 or so, or about $10,000 more than you paid so far. Again I'm surprised the company who already put the solar on your roof wouldn't be willing to work something out vs costing them money to take the system down.

[HX_Guy]

Thanks for the clarification. Actually the offer of the refund came yesterday, but they sent it to my husband's email address, so I didn't know about it until today. I thought I was clear about the size of the system before. We have 12 solar panels and they produce not even 4000 kWh, which is too little for our energy needs. We need over 8000 kWh. What else do you need to know?

Tanya that doesn't tell us that much about system size, but its understandable coming from a homeowner who isn't really all that familiar with solar technology.

12 panels could mean a 3.0kW system or it could mean 4.02kW or anywhere in between. Its not only the number of panels that matters but what the panel rating is (250W, 275W, 327W etc).

[NorCalX]

This is a bad comedy sketch with the miscommunication

I dont think you understand what the system is

Do you know what your 12 panels are?

Brand and model?

I'll tell you system from that

For example, if they put 12 canadian solar 260s you would have 12x260=3.12kw system

If those assumptions are correct you paid approx. 4.16 per watt (13k / 3.12kw)

That is decent pricing from a big name for small system size....they just undersized it. And I'm shocked they would refund.

*All of those are guesstimates

[Tanya]

I can't believe it wouldn't be more worth it to them to strike up a deal that works for both sides? To remove the system is going to take some work, and now they have to patch up your roof back to how it was. And at the end of the day they end up with year old used equipment.

12 panels, at a guess of 250W per panel, means a 3.0Kw system. At almost $13,000 comes out to around $4.25/watt, which is high no doubt (I assume you paid cash?) but for such a small system I can certainly understand it, especially in California.

On your next go around, I wouldn't really expect to pay that much less given the somewhat small system size still (6.0kW). Maybe around $3.75 per watt? Possibly lower? Others in your area can chime in but bottom line is that you'll still end up paying somewhere around $22,000 or so, or about $10,000 more than you paid so far. Again I'm surprised the company who already put the solar on your roof wouldn't be willing to work something out vs costing them money to take the system down.

That's the offer we got from them and of course we'll take it. Basically, we can remove the egg from our face without going to court and throw good money after bad. So you're saying we should expect to pay around $3.75 per watt of energy output for our next system. Anything else we need to know or should be aware of? I'm assuming we need around double the amount of solar panels than we have now.

[Tanya]

This is a bad comedy sketch with the miscommunication

I dont think you understand what the system is

Do you know what your 12 panels are?

Brand and model?

I'll tell you system from that

For example, if they put 12 canadian solar 260s you would have 12x260=3.12kw system

If those assumptions are correct you paid approx. 4.16 per watt (13k / 3.12kw)

That is decent pricing from a big name for small system size....they just undersized it. And I'm shocked they would refund.

*All of those are guesstimates

Not trying to be funny. The paperwork states it's the Power Saver Series 3000 with Enphase Micro Inverters and the module is SolarWorld. Does that help?

[J.P.M.]

Well, then hopefully our experience serves others not to make the same mistake. Above you were talking about limitations of a system and what to watch out for. Would you care to elaborate?

I'm not sure this is the proper venue for an epistle. Best answer and suggestion I can respectfully make to your question is to download a copy of "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies" and read it. Knowledge is power.

You may have been taken advantage of because of your ignorance, but I'd guess you had little to no idea of what you were buying or it's limitations. The possibility your were ripped off is not your responsibility, and that whole situation sucks. Big time.

However, the responsibility for the ignorance that enabled such a situation to exist is, IMO, yours.

Once more, I'd guess, like me, many/most here are about 110+% on your side, but your willful ignorance had a big hand in what's developed up to now.