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  • Worth a little extra for Quickmount?

    I've got two similar quotes, one of which includes Quickmount PV and is about $800 after the federal tax credit. It seems there is a lot of disagreement, but I wanted people's opinions whether it's worth the extra month to have what I consider "roof insurance" due to the double flashing and other additional pieces.

    I'm looking at installing at 5.67KW system with LG 315 panels and a SolarEdge S6000 inverter (extended to 25 years) for $3.70/watt before tax credits.

    Thanks in advance!
    DanInSD

  • #2
    Have them look into the snap n rack flashed l foot. Less than half the cost.
    NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

    [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Naptown View Post
      Have them look into the snap n rack flashed l foot. Less than half the cost.
      The other installation was with TileTrac. That does seem to be a standard. (I'll ask about snap n rack but think quickmount is all they use.)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by DanInSD View Post
        I've got two similar quotes, one of which includes Quickmount PV and is about $800 after the federal tax credit. It seems there is a lot of disagreement, but I wanted people's opinions whether it's worth the extra month to have what I consider "roof insurance" due to the double flashing and other additional pieces.
        Sounds like you already know the difference and benefit. So does $800 buy you a peace of mind for 20 years (assuming your roof will last that long). If so, it's a bargain.
        16xLG300N1C+SE6000[url]http://tiny.cc/ojmxyx[/url]

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        • #5
          Originally posted by thejq View Post
          Sounds like you already know the difference and benefit. So does $800 buy you a peace of mind for 20 years (assuming your roof will last that long). If so, it's a bargain.
          Fair response.

          While I feel I understand the difference and benefit, I'm definitely a newbie on the solar front and wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything really obvious. I agree that it seems like a reasonable additional cost.

          Take care and thanks again!
          DanInSD

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          • #6
            What kind of roof
            I was thinking asphalt shingles.
            NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

            [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

            [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

            [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

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            • #7
              Originally posted by DanInSD View Post
              Fair response.

              While I feel I understand the difference and benefit, I'm definitely a newbie on the solar front and wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything really obvious. I agree that it seems like a reasonable additional cost.

              Take care and thanks again!
              DanInSD
              You are comparing two industry standard techniques, neither of which is fool proof. $800 extra for double flashed (PVQuickmount) vs single flash and compression sealed (TileTrac) does not sound like a good deal to me.
              CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Naptown View Post
                What kind of roof
                I was thinking asphalt shingles.

                It's rounded cement tile. Built in 1997.

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                • #9
                  Imho the solar industry is going overboard on roofing practices when using flashed footings. I've posted about this subject before if you search for it.

                  True - Flashed mounts for roof penetrations are standard, but the roofing industry defines penetration as a plumbing vent, electical conduit, skylight, solar tube, etc. Not nails and screws. A surface mount fastened into the roof framing makes a compression seal that will outlast any roof. Go ahead and spend lots on flashed footings if it will make you sleep better at night, but I have thousands and thousands of L-feet out there and not one problem so far. I've done jobs where our leasing company (and their paranoid "financing partner" masters) have used flashed footings at the same time roofers were working on other parts of the roof and they just laugh.... The roofing industry figured out long ago how to waterproof a roof economically without going to extravagant means.

                  BTW, if you do put in flashings and in the process of inserting them up to the second shingle course above the mount, you pull out nails (as specified by QuickMount in their instructions) - you just violated your roof's warranty.
                  BSEE, R11, NABCEP, Chevy BoltEV, >3000kW installed

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                  • #10
                    Can you elaborate?

                    Originally posted by solarix View Post
                    Imho the solar industry is going overboard on roofing practices when using flashed footings. I've posted about this subject before if you search for it.

                    True - Flashed mounts for roof penetrations are standard, but the roofing industry defines penetration as a plumbing vent, electical conduit, skylight, solar tube, etc. Not nails and screws. A surface mount fastened into the roof framing makes a compression seal that will outlast any roof. Go ahead and spend lots on flashed footings if it will make you sleep better at night, but I have thousands and thousands of L-feet out there and not one problem so far. I've done jobs where our leasing company (and their paranoid "financing partner" masters) have used flashed footings at the same time roofers were working on other parts of the roof and they just laugh.... The roofing industry figured out long ago how to waterproof a roof economically without going to extravagant means.

                    BTW, if you do put in flashings and in the process of inserting them up to the second shingle course above the mount, you pull out nails (as specified by QuickMount in their instructions) - you just violated your roof's warranty.
                    What exact section of warranty does this violate?

                    Warranties aside, for surface mount onto existing roof, what is preferred to avoid future leaks: quickmount or snap n rac? Those are my two options.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by sdhomeowner View Post
                      What exact section of warranty does this violate?

                      Warranties aside, for surface mount onto existing roof, what is preferred to avoid future leaks: quickmount or snap n rac? Those are my two options.
                      Most shingle manufacturers require 4 nails per shingle. Usually that's overkill, and 3 is plenty. I wouldn't really worry about voiding my roofing warranty, because most of them have so many requirements that they are voided just by having them on your roof.
                      I know a number of people who bought "25 year" shingles, only to have to replace them in 10 years. Warranty didn't help because there's a clause limiting the amount of snowfall you can have, and minimum temperatures, as well as a lot of other BS.

                      Using non-flashed penetrations may work for you in Arizona, but here in the northeast, we get snow and ice, and you want all the protection you can get.

                      Personally I think QuickMount has be best design. The raised seal makes it virtually impossible to allow water in. That said, I don't see anything wrong with SnapnRacks design either.

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                      • #12
                        Well lets see, we have this basic clause that lets Owens Corning off the hook if you alter anything:

                        "Damage to the shingles caused by alterations made after completion of application,
                        including structural changes, equipment installation, painting or the application of
                        cleaning solutions, coatings, or other modifications."

                        And then we have this clause :

                        Improper or faulty installation of your shingles—installation must be in accordance with
                        our written installation instructions and comply with local building codes.

                        And the instructions specifically say: "Use four nails for every full shingle" (for low slopes, and six nails for high slopes).

                        I will say that the reality of shingle roofing warranties is that they are totally designed to preclude virtually anything you do to the roof.
                        It is almost impossible for a homeowner to make an actionable claim on their warranty, and you might as well not base your decisions on protecting your roof warranty.

                        Another issue is whether breaking the shingle's adhesive seal to insert the flashing is a violation. I seriously doubt that shingles will reliably reseal when flashings are inserted.
                        I know for a fact, that inserting flashings is very prone to cutting, cracking and degrading the shingles.

                        I can't believe that altering a shingle roof with the installation of mounting flashings is in keeping with the motto "respect the roof"

                        As for Quick-Mount vs Snap-n-Rack, I don't believe QuickMount even makes a surface mount (they are the ones pushing the whole flashing mantra) and any manufactured L-foot I've ever seen is too small of a foot print in my opinion. The mount needs to be at least three inches wide in our opinion (thus we make our own). No matter how well you measure, roof framing wanders around a bit and you will have missed holes that those little 2" wide L-feet won't cover. The goal is to have a compression seal on all punctures.
                        BSEE, R11, NABCEP, Chevy BoltEV, >3000kW installed

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DanInSD View Post
                          I've got two similar quotes, one of which includes Quickmount PV and is about $800 after the federal tax credit. It seems there is a lot of disagreement, but I wanted people's opinions whether it's worth the extra month to have what I consider "roof insurance" due to the double flashing and other additional pieces.

                          I'm looking at installing at 5.67KW system with LG 315 panels and a SolarEdge S6000 inverter (extended to 25 years) for $3.70/watt before tax credits.

                          Thanks in advance!
                          DanInSD
                          Up front disclaimer - I am not a roofer.

                          I just did DIY 5.4kw system on a concrete Spanish S-tile rood using QuickMount PV S-hook. Although the QuickMount PV S-hook is nice and you do pay premium for it, I was making two extra holes in the roof to hold the flashing down as per their instructions, and then adding a double layer of tar with mesh grid that seemed to be an overkill. Actually their flashing was making me to remove extra tiles to the side because it is big. Throughout the job I wondered why can't I just flash the attachment with tar because the attachment is already compression sealed with M1 structural roof adhesive - no way anything will leak. There is no need for the metal flashing. I did not like QuickMount PV self-tapping screw - that thing strips like it was made out of butter...

                          I am aware of TileTrac system, and I would not put it on my roof even if somebody paid me $$$. One lag bolt to the rafter holding a little rail that is glued to the paper. Any force moment from the top will move/disturb the little rail and then you may get a leak. From my point of view it is the cheapest and weakest system you can get.

                          I personally do recommend S-hook type of attachment system that does not cut through tile, similar to QuickMount PV but not necessarily made by them. QuickMount PV hardware cost 40% more that other S-hooks ($20 vs $12 per attachment), which is not a big deal in overall cost (for 40 attachments you pay $320 more, and get $100 back on taxes), but it does take much more labor to install. My permit office did like all the CA PE certified tests QuickMount PV did, and the inspector did like the triple flashing, but he was not the one doing the work. QuickMount PV S-hook does perform better in compression than other S-hooks. If you have snow then better compression performance of QuickMount PV s-hook will help.
                          17xE20-327+SMA 5000
                          6xSuniva 325+ABB micros

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by emartin00 View Post
                            Most shingle manufacturers require 4 nails per shingle. Usually that's overkill, and 3 is plenty. I wouldn't really worry about voiding my roofing warranty, because most of them have so many requirements that they are voided just by having them on your roof.
                            I know a number of people who bought "25 year" shingles, only to have to replace them in 10 years. Warranty didn't help because there's a clause limiting the amount of snowfall you can have, and minimum temperatures, as well as a lot of other BS.

                            Using non-flashed penetrations may work for you in Arizona, but here in the northeast, we get snow and ice, and you want all the protection you can get.

                            Personally I think QuickMount has be best design. The raised seal makes it virtually impossible to allow water in. That said, I don't see anything wrong with SnapnRacks design either.
                            Be careful about reducing the number of nails for each shingle. Your house insurance company may also have a requirement for 4 or 5 nails per shingle. If you file a claim and they find less then their requirement you may have a problem getting compensated.

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                            • #15
                              Dan - your roof is 18 years old. Consider re-papering below the array now. The cost to remove and reinstall the system in the future is not cheap.

                              Furnishing flashable posts (not QMPV), and having a roofer install 2 new layers of paper, double flash the posts and reinstall the existing tile is $1,800. This is based on 18 panels on a concrete s-tile roof. Your adder cost for "upgrading" to QMPV is $800 net, or $1,143 gross (really??). This is on top of the base price.

                              Re-papering now is cheap insurance and eligible for the tax credit.

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