Solar Edge Vs Enphase Power optimizers

[SunEagle]

the existing systems for this are not cheap.
you need a controller and the disconnect devices:

http://www.midnitesolar.com/products.php?menuItem=products&productCat_ID=44&productCatName=RAPID-SHUTDOWN-SYSTEM-NEC-690.12

The disconnect devices often double as combiners but are more expensive than standard combiners.

http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/rapidShutdown11x17_frontBack.pdf

Fronius is working on their own device as well:

http://www.fronius.com/cps/rde/xbcr/SID-FDAC8843-5B285C5C/fronius_usa/RapidShutdownBox_441527_snapshot.pdf

few of these systems seem to be available at this time. There may be a cheaper solution in the future.

I guess it is a matter of judgement about what is low cost and what is not.

IMO a single device like the Midnitesolar Birdhouse would be cheaper to install then installing a device (similar to a micro inverter) at each pv panel. Maybe Fronius will deliver their product at a reasonable cost.

If the string inverter manufacturers want to help people upgrade their system to meet the new NEC requirement IMO it can lead to a price war with 3rd party companies providing a UL listed device to do what is needed without the need to purchase from the string inverter mfg.

[ButchDeal]

I am sure that existing string inverter manufacturers as well as other solar equipment companies will develop a device that can be easily field installed that would meet the NEC 2014 rapid shutdown requirement.

The key is to reduce the voltage being generated by the panels to below 50v within 10 feet of the array. I do not believe installing a device like that would be costly.

the existing systems for this are not cheap.
you need a controller and the disconnect devices:

http://www.midnitesolar.com/products.php?menuItem=products&productCat_ID=44&productCatName=RAPID-SHUTDOWN-SYSTEM-NEC-690.12

The disconnect devices often double as combiners but are more expensive than standard combiners.

http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/rapidShutdown11x17_frontBack.pdf

Fronius is working on their own device as well:

http://www.fronius.com/cps/rde/xbcr/SID-FDAC8843-5B285C5C/fronius_usa/RapidShutdownBox_441527_snapshot.pdf

few of these systems seem to be available at this time. There may be a cheaper solution in the future.

[SunEagle]

If for some reason (code or future modification of system), rapid shutdown needs to be installed on an existing string system.

Will something like SMA_Rapid_Shutdown do the trick ? How difficult and expensive would it be to retrofit this ?

Does it make sense to have this now in anticipation of NEC 2014 ? The doc talks about savings in lieu of a junction box.

I am sure that existing string inverter manufacturers as well as other solar equipment companies will develop a device that can be easily field installed that would meet the NEC 2014 rapid shutdown requirement.

The key is to reduce the voltage being generated by the panels to below 50v within 10 feet of the array. I do not believe installing a device like that would be costly.

[inetdog]

If for some reason (code or future modification of system), rapid shutdown needs to be installed on an existing string system.

Will something like SMA_Rapid_Shutdown do the trick ? How difficult and expensive would it be to retrofit this ?

Does it make sense to have this now in anticipation of NEC 2014 ? The doc talks about savings in lieu of a junction box.

That should work and the necessary comm wiring should be inexpensive. Either as a marketing decision or a hardware dependency it will only be offered to work with units that have the SPS option already.

[lanb]

Rapid shutdown with string

If for some reason (code or future modification of system), rapid shutdown needs to be installed on an existing string system.

Will something like SMA_Rapid_Shutdown do the trick ? How difficult and expensive would it be to retrofit this ?

Does it make sense to have this now in anticipation of NEC 2014 ? The doc talks about savings in lieu of a junction box.

[solarix]

Basically, we in the solar industry are bucking the system trying to make electricity flow backwards through the grid. The whole electric system is not set up for this either physic-ally or business-wise, or code-wise. There are lots of challenges to getting the electric system to be more clean/renewable/resilient, so we just keep pushing through all the high-seas and hoping the tide will turn.

[cebury]

Rarely will anyone be forced to bring up an existing electrical system to meet the current code. It is only when that existing system is modified or changed that the latest code requirements need to be met.

Although there are some areas of building codes that require existing facilities to be updated. Due to new hires some buildings must meet the new ADA code to allow safe and easy passage (including restrooms) for people that require wheel chairs.

I assumed that. But that's dangerous to do in CA with code or laws. These days, you just never know when/where the political will falls into those OMG exceptions. If CA was leaning the retrofit direction I'm sure you folks would've heard of it by now.

Thanks for the answer.

[SunEagle]

So I'm in CA and I hadn't even considered this in costs of string vs. SE. If I install SMA string today, upon later adoption of NEC 2014 they wouldn't dare (your SWAG) require compliance? In almost all other code situations, usually it's just until next permit is pulled?

If there is a chance they'll require all existing systems be compliant, this sounds like a big consideration today (and a huge headache for the thousands of residential PV users).

Rarely will anyone be forced to bring up an existing electrical system to meet the current code. It is only when that existing system is modified or changed that the latest code requirements need to be met.

Although there are some areas of building codes that require existing facilities to be updated. Due to new hires some buildings must meet the new ADA code to allow safe and easy passage (including restrooms) for people that require wheel chairs.

[cebury]

Ya, the rapid shutdown rule will be a major advantage for the distributed type inverters. That code rule has not achieved widespread adoption yet but will be yet another major p.i.t.a when it does.
.

So I'm in CA and I hadn't even considered this in costs of string vs. SE. If I install SMA string today, upon later adoption of NEC 2014 they wouldn't dare (your SWAG) require compliance? In almost all other code situations, usually it's just until next permit is pulled?

If there is a chance they'll require all existing systems be compliant, this sounds like a big consideration today (and a huge headache for the thousands of residential PV users).

[emartin00]

Does Solaredge optimizer required any additional grounding for the metal plate that is attached to the optimizer ?

Yes. Depending on the rail system you are using, you can use WEEBs or other approved grounding methods.

[solarix]

1) what are the inverter failures that you have encountered? (which model are you using?)

I've installed maybe 20 SolarEdge systems - all but two the older models. Haven't had any failures with the new model.
2 failures of the inverter just quitting, 2 failures where the big capacitors inside exploded making a mess of it.


2) What failures did you faced when using the solaredge optimizer (which model are you using?)

I think at least 10 failures of the optimizers (the older ones were called powerboxes). They just quit working, but do allow the string current to pass through so it doesn't affect the rest of the system. What really concerned me was every time we removed an optimizer, the plastic on the MC4 connectors they used just snaps right off leaving a hole in the case! Of course, this is Arizona, but these units were all under the PV modules in the shade at least. I learned a long time ago that our dry climate just dries out the resin in most plastics and make them brittle. I know for a fact that all the early powerboxes I installed are going to fail sooner or later.

[Amenda]

Does Solaredge optimizer required any additional grounding for the metal plate that is attached to the optimizer ?

[Amenda]

I really fell for the SolarEdge design when it first came out and installed them almost exclusively for about 18 months until they started to drop like flies. Out of the 30 systems I've got out there (including one on my place), so far I've had 3 inverter failures (2 absolutely blow up inside), and about 20 Powerbox (they call them optimizers now) failures. Of course, these were the early product and we're in hot Arizona. They have redesigned everything and the new stuff is doing well - so far. I knew from the beginning the danger of SolarEdge being a startup company but took a chance on them anyway and got burned. I still use SolarEdge for jobs that have real shading problems but now that we have SunnyBoys with dual MPPT inputs, I rarely need to.

I'm just curious, deeply appreciate if you can share with me the following enquires that i have,

1) what are the inverter failures that you have encountered? (which model are you using?)
2) What failures did you faced when using the solaredge optimizer (which model are you using?)

[SunEagle]

If the first responders were really concerned with safety, they would do something like outlaw open flame in households which in our modern world is totally unnecessary and would eliminate thousands and thousands of fires every year. But open flame is such a well established tradition that the safety planners could never get that through so they pick on the new solar technology and what-if it to death even though it is an infinitesimal safety issue.

Open flame is not the number one reason for house fires. There is a high percentage of fires due to people smoking in bed along with using electric heaters too close to burnable fabrics. On top of that you still get idiots that over load their home receptacle circuits.

I would think that open flame causing home fires is way down the list of fire hazards. Now if you look at forest fires then yes open flame fire pits have caused a lot of them along with lightning strikes.

[solarix]

If the first responders were really concerned with safety, they would do something like outlaw open flame in households which in our modern world is totally unnecessary and would eliminate thousands and thousands of fires every year. But open flame is such a well established tradition that the safety planners could never get that through so they pick on the new solar technology and what-if it to death even though it is an infinitesimal safety issue.