Please help me decide on which way to go. (enPhase vs SolarEdge vs LG)

[Ian S]

As far as heat is concerned, under the hood of your car gets WAY hotter, than under a solar panel. All the electronics bake away under the hood mile after mile, year after year, and really seem to care. I think its a overblown issue.

Most of the time, a car is not running. 100,000 miles on a car represents less than 5 months of actual operation if you assume an average 30 mph operating speed. Plus, most of the electronics under the hood are a lot lower power than what's seen in an inverter.

[Alisobob]

The injection circuit in my Duramax runs off 240v, at 20 amps.

New cars have come along way....

[chuckgm3]

Thanks all for the feedback. Seems like there's a lot to consider.

I realize now that I'm calculating my $/kWh incorrectly, so is $4 reasonable considering the $1800 panel upgrade, extended 25 year warranty etc.?

It seems like everyone with M250's are happy with the production regardless of whether or not there's some moderate clipping.

To throw one more question into the mix. I originally had my system sized on last year's data of 12,484 and $2,746 based on Edison's 4 tier domestic rate I was on. However, since purchasing my Elec vehicle, I was able to switch to TOU-B and move most of my pool pump operation to night time. Also, my wife and I are both at work during the day so the TOU really works well for us. The end result is that this first month of TOU is shaping up to be about the same kWh as this period last year, but $100 less. If this extrapolate's out, I could be looking at around a $1k savings just by changing plans. With that in mind, should I stick with a 25 panel 7.6kW system? Or should I downsize a bit?

[Ian S]

should I stick with a 25 panel 7.6kW system? Or should I downsize a bit?

Well, if you decide to downsize, I'd start with the panels with the 300 degree azimuth. Although I suppose the good thing about them is you'd probably never see clipping.

[jimqpublic]

I bought an Enphase system- but before you decide on inverter type one more thing to consider is power outages. Over 23 years in Long Beach with SCE we have probably seen no power outage longer than 4 hours- and generally only a brief outage every few years. That said, a severe earthquake could have the power out for weeks.

The SMA Sunny Boy TL series inverters will provide up to 1500 watts from your solar panels even if the grid is down. With a 6 kW system that would give you 1500 watts for about 8 hours per day, enough to keep a few fridges/freezers going and charge a bunch of power tools, radios, phones, etc. It doesn't cost add the sort of cost or complexity of a battery backup but could be a big plus in a long outage- presuming of course that your house doesn't fall down.

[Alisobob]

I could be looking at around a $1k savings just by changing plans. With that in mind, should I stick with a 25 panel 7.6kW system? Or should I downsize a bit?

solar99.JPGsolar98.JPG

I've been making this argument for awhile... that for the right situation....TOU plans are the way to go.

I'm seeing good credit numbers, and this is after supplying 99% of my power demands. I could have easily gotten a smaller system, had I known.

BUT.... somewhere down the road, who's to say this will remain true, or where will non TOU rates go?

Its a tough decision.

[J.P.M.]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6690[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]6691[/ATTACH]

I've been making this argument for awhile... that for the right situation....TOU plans are the way to go.

I'm seeing good credit numbers, and this is after supplying 99% of my power demands. I could have easily gotten a smaller system, had I known.

BUT.... somewhere down the road, who's to say this will remain true, or where will non TOU rates go?

Its a tough decision.

I'd suggest T.O.U. MAY be a way to go, but it's not automatic. Knowledge of use patterns and such are needed to see if it pays for anyone.

[Alisobob]

Knowledge of use patterns and such are needed to see if it pays for anyone.

Yup.... Weather patterns too

solar62.JPG
This is a good day.... -18.8 KwH's.


BUT... this is a very similar day, but with some overcast, and some early power usage between 4 and 5 pm, still on "Peak" time ( I think my daughter was baking..)
solar84.JPG
VERY different result... +1.5 KwH's.

Do your homework...

FYI... Weekends are all "Off Peak", as are weekday "Holidays".

[n9lri]

Solar Edge vs Enphase

This is a no brainer.

Solar Edge is by far the more efficient system.

I'm a Nabcep installer and have installed Enphase, Solar Edge, Schneider, Solar Bridge and SMA.
Clipping is bad news. If your clipping your not yielding all the power available.
I also seen in here where you think that running an inverter "hard" makes it more efficient. That is exactly backwards. The best inverter efficiency happens at the 80% point of the inverters rating. Going above that pushes the inverter into less efficient operation and reduces it life.
At wide open your down over 2% from the inverter peak efficiency.

Here where it gets cold a 250 watt panel will yield near 300 watts each. No enphase can handle that and it amounts to KWH's lost.
Peakpower.jpg

You will never ever see a Enphase do this and the heat matters. The hotter the inverter the lower the power out.
I'll install a Solar Bridge before an Enphase. Micro inverters are the last choice and the least efficient over any central inverter system.

The Solar Edge arrays we installed has beat every other system out there for yearly yields. Including SMA and Fronius systems.
The micro inverter systems are always lower in yield. There easy to install and easier to expand but there the worst performing due to the 96% efficiency. Most modern central inverters are up around 98% efficient.

A 2% shift in efficiency on a 10kw array is 300KWh a year difference. If you live where it's cold then you need to allow head room in the inverter so you don't clip. Just look at the photo. Those are all 250 panels with some right at 300 watts. On a Enphase you'll never know what is really there.

No matter what you decide power clipping is Bad. You spent the money don't you want every drop of power ?

If someone is telling you that a Solar Edge is cheaper than an Enphase some one is feeding you hay. Solar Edge is the most expensive system to install and for good reason. Nothing else comes close.

And with the modular Maximizers it's just as easy to add to a Solar Edge as to an Enphase and online monitoring is built into every Solar Edge. No extra 400 dollar box is needed.
Enphase die. Never mind it's under warranty. Had a car like that. Broke all the time but it was under warranty. Well it didn't cost me but I got tired of it being in the shop all the time and driving a loaner. Give them time and you'll be on the roof pulling panels.

It's time to get the snake oils out of solar.

[russ]

I'm a Nabcep installer and have installed Enphase, Solar Edge, Schneider, Solar Bridge and SMA.
Clipping is bad news. Wow not

If your clipping your not yielding all the power available. May be a big deal and may not

I also seen in here where you think that running an inverter "hard" makes it more efficient. That is exactly backwards. The best inverter efficiency happens at the 80% point of the inverters rating. Going above that pushes the inverter into less efficient operation and reduces it life.
At wide open your down over 2% from the inverter peak efficiency. Actual references for this if you would please - not personal opinion

Here where it gets cold a 250 watt panel will yield near 300 watts each. No enphase can handle that and it amounts to KWH's lost.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]6694[/ATTACH]

You will never ever see a Enphase do this and the heat matters. The hotter the inverter the lower the power out.
I'll install a Solar Bridge before an Enphase. Micro inverters are the last choice and the least efficient over any central inverter system. Again, references if making this statement

The Solar Edge arrays we installed has beat every other system out there for yearly yields. Including SMA and Fronius systems.
The micro inverter systems are always lower in yield. There easy to install and easier to expand but there the worst performing due to the 96% efficiency. Most modern central inverters are up around 98% efficient.

A 2% shift in efficiency on a 10kw array is 300KWh a year difference. If you live where it's cold then you need to allow head room in the inverter so you don't clip. Just look at the photo. Those are all 250 panels with some right at 300 watts. On a Enphase you'll never know what is really there. 300 kWh per x 15 cents = about 45$ per year? Who cares?

No matter what you decide power clipping is Bad. You spent the money don't you want every drop of power ?

If someone is telling you that a Solar Edge is cheaper than an Enphase some one is feeding you hay. Solar Edge is the most expensive system to install and for good reason. Nothing else comes close.

And with the modular Maximizers it's just as easy to add to a Solar Edge as to an Enphase and online monitoring is built into every Solar Edge. No extra 400 dollar box is needed.
Enphase die. Never mind it's under warranty. Had a car like that. Broke all the time but it was under warranty. Well it didn't cost me but I got tired of it being in the shop all the time and driving a loaner. Give them time and you'll be on the roof pulling panels.

It's time to get the snake oils out of solar.

Seems like you are the snake oil man?

[AaronG]

I think it happens to everyone with SE. FYI, yesterday my SE shows 33.58KWh, but PVoutput registered 32.57KWh. The difference seems to be around 3% on a clear day and somewhat less on a cloudy day. A wild guess is maybe the inverter is calculating DC wattage, but reports the actual AC wattage in the API (which PVoutput reads), since SE claims 97% efficiency, hence 3% difference. Someone else also speculated that the 15-min update rate has something to do with it, but the symmetry of the bell curve should have taken care of the lagging effect. So for comparison with other brands, it's probably safer to use the PVoutputs data, or takes SE's data and divide 1.03.

FYI for you and I.

My Question:
I am curious, when I look at my portal, I see stuff such as "Yesterdays Energy: 44.34kWh" is this the DC produced energy from all my panels, or is this the DC->AC energy converted by the inverter? I suspect I am viewing the DC... Is there a way to see both metrics?

SE Response:
5/12/2015 2:59 PM | Tom Simpson
What you see on the dashboard is Export to AC what you see on the module level (layout) is DC/DC. The dashboard only shows actual production which is always in AC never DC. You can only export AC not DC. There are no changing the configuration without your own GUI. See sunpec errata if this is something you are interested in

[thejq]

To throw one more question into the mix. I originally had my system sized on last year's data of 12,484 and $2,746 based on Edison's 4 tier domestic rate I was on. However, since purchasing my Elec vehicle, I was able to switch to TOU-B and move most of my pool pump operation to night time. Also, my wife and I are both at work during the day so the TOU really works well for us. The end result is that this first month of TOU is shaping up to be about the same kWh as this period last year, but $100 less. If this extrapolate's out, I could be looking at around a $1k savings just by changing plans. With that in mind, should I stick with a 25 panel 7.6kW system? Or should I downsize a bit?

With TOU plans, your orientation also becomes important. I believe for SCE, SW or SWW facing work the best, because of on-peak time frame. If you can maximize generation and minimize usage during on-peak, there's no reason to size your system to cover > 90% of the usage. A much smaller system (eg. 70%-75%?) is probably all you need. But you have to go through the math yourself to be convinced. Another factor to consider is that all the CA utilities are considering moving towards having a minimum monthly charge, so it's better to pay something ($10-20) at the end of the month just so it's bigger than the minimum charge.

[n9lri]

Seems like you are the snake oil man?

Really
45 dollars x 25 years 1200 bucks and where do you live where power is so cheap ?

Base here is .18

It's your money.

[thejq]

FYI for you and I.

My Question:
I am curious, when I look at my portal, I see stuff such as "Yesterdays Energy: 44.34kWh" is this the DC produced energy from all my panels, or is this the DC->AC energy converted by the inverter? I suspect I am viewing the DC... Is there a way to see both metrics?

SE Response:
5/12/2015 2:59 PM | Tom Simpson
What you see on the dashboard is Export to AC what you see on the module level (layout) is DC/DC. The dashboard only shows actual production which is always in AC never DC. You can only export AC not DC. There are no changing the configuration without your own GUI. See sunpec errata if this is something you are interested in

Yes, that's what I thought. But I can't explain the difference between the end-of-day production reported by the dashboard, and calculation by summing up all the 15-min wattages and divide by 4. The latter is always smaller by roughly 2-3%. I'm hoping you're right that the dashboard is the actual production, but the number seems a little too good comparing to Enphase (which on paper should have efficiency within 1% from SE).

[n9lri]

Seems like you are the snake oil man?

So you have never seen an inverter efficiency curve

here you go.

eff.jpg