Mythical $3.50/watt installation?

[GaryS1964]

I say "mythical" because I have gotten six bids and all are over $4.30/watt. I live in the Sacramento, CA area. The cost of the systems on a per watt basis range from a high of $4.59/watt with Sunpower panels to a low of $4.31/watt with Canadian Solar panels. I don't want to put junk on my roof and I want to go with a panel manufacturer and contractor who have a proven track record of dependable and quality work and who was here before the solar boom and will be here after the solar bust.

I would love to hear from anyone in the Sacramento, CA area or Northern California area who has come close to the $3.50/watt standard and find out what panels, inverters, etc. they used and who their contractor was.

[HX_Guy]

Amazing how much more expensive California solar is. Here in AZ we are doing cash purchase deals at $3.10/watt installed.

[SunEagle]

Amazing how much more expensive California solar is. Here in AZ we are doing cash purchase deals at $3.10/watt installed.

My guess is that in CA there is a bigger demand to install solar so the price goes up. Something about "supply and demand" comes to mind from an economics class EC101 back in school.

It also may have to do with bigger pay checks in CA, but I am totally guessing on that one.

[J.P.M.]

It's called negotiating.

[jonathan]

I say "mythical" because I have gotten six bids and all are over $4.30/watt. I live in the Sacramento, CA area. The cost of the systems on a per watt basis range from a high of $4.59/watt with Sunpower panels to a low of $4.31/watt with Canadian Solar panels. I don't want to put junk on my roof and I want to go with a panel manufacturer and contractor who have a proven track record of dependable and quality work and who was here before the solar boom and will be here after the solar bust.

I would love to hear from anyone in the Sacramento, CA area or Northern California area who has come close to the $3.50/watt standard and find out what panels, inverters, etc. they used and who their contractor was.

I'm in the Bay Area. Bids (without significant negotiation) for SunPower prices tend to be $5.50+, non-SunPower tend to be around $4.20-$4.40. I've found one contractor whose bid is closer to $3.90. One of the $4.40 contractors mentioned in the past that he's been able to do closer to $4 if a bunch of neighbors band together; another indicated that each system is custom designed and there really isn't a lot of economy of scale here.

Clearly labor is expensive here, and the demand must not be too soft if they're able to still command these prices...

[thejq]

I can understand Bay Area being more expensive - but Sacramento? Maybe there's not enough competition, or you need to call a few more. One thing might help when you call is to sound like you've already done your research (about panel size, equipment etc.) and you're committed.

[MARKSDCA]

My system so far:

$4850 for Solarworld SW270 Plus Mon Black panels (Craigslist) at $215 each plus self delivery....picked them up using a rented Chrysler Town and Country minivan
$600 for plans
$500 for permits from City of San Diego
$2000 for racking and wiring (estimate)
$3000 install labor
$2200 Fronius 6K inverter

13,150 total or $2.21/watt or $1.48/watt after 30% Fed tax credit

[12CV2]

I think demand in the Bay Area is high enough right now that the higher rated installers have a full pipeline for the next few months. Installers are pitching high prices to everyone and will negotiate down some from that high price. The thinking must be that they can make double the profit if they win a high bid and less work to tie up their already busy crews. If they lose,there are always more people calling.

I also think there are a smaller number of installers in the Bay Area. The Bay Area is so much smaller than So Cal so there is less competition to drive down prices.

[newsol]

I think demand in the Bay Area is high enough right now that the higher rated installers have a full pipeline for the next few months. Installers are pitching high prices to everyone and will negotiate down some from that high price. The thinking must be that they can make double the profit if they win a high bid and less work to tie up their already busy crews. If they lose,there are always more people calling.

I also think there are a smaller number of installers in the Bay Area. The Bay Area is so much smaller than So Cal so there is less competition to drive down prices.

+1

Initially, I had a lot of installers ranging from 4.40+ for non sunpower and 4.70-5.50 for sunpower. As I dug more and more some of the initial bids started to go down as they see you more knowledgeable about solar and inverters and such. In the end I ended up with LG300 for about 3.90/watt so it seems pretty decent for up here in the bay area. Everything in so cal is so much cheaper than up here. I bought a 2 piece chicken meal at KFC for $1.00 less in so cal than the bay area.

[12CV2]

The first question almost all companies asked was "So how far along are you in the process..." My response would usually be that I'm in the process of getting quotes from many companies hoping that would motivate them to come in with a lower initial bid. That mistake would result in some really high quotes >$4.5/W for non-sunpower panels. All companies around here seem to know what others give as first bids and nobody is willing to come in too low at first.

What I should have said is..."I've been on Solarpanel talk, let's start at <$3.90" I think a third of the companies would have hung up right there.

Sad to say that the most pleasant people to deal with were all the ones pitching Sunpower @>$5/W or the non-sunpower at >$4.5/W.

[HX_Guy]

Sad to say that the most pleasant people to deal with were all the ones pitching Sunpower @>$5/W or the non-sunpower at >$4.5/W.

Well sure, because they know their pockets are about to be lined with some cash.

[jonathan]

Well sure, because they know their pockets are about to be lined with some cash.

Yep.

[jonathan]

But seriously, I don't think there's a lot of downward price pressure due to demand. The more expensive bids that I've seen have correlated to longer lead times to install ... I've seen bids say ~6 weeks to install (ignoring POCO hookups, or extraordinary delays in city inspections) to closer to 12-16 weeks. This on a job that all say would be between 2-3 days of work.

[J.P.M.]

In any area, or any industry, it's likely that most vendors have a pretty good idea what things are selling for, where they need to be with informed customers and how low they can go before they need to decline to bid.

In all likelihood, they know who the competition is, a great deal about the competition's products, policies and pricing, and even more likely they've worked with some of them in the past, or will in the future if they last. It isn't necessarily price fixing, but they know. They just have no need to tell the customer they know how low they can go. That's just the way the system works.

It's up to the customer to be aware of here the market is. That was one of the real strongpoints of the CSI database. It was the potential customer's most powerful tool while it lasted.

Places like this forum serve some of that need, but the database is relatively small and unverified. Still, it's better than nothing.

[MARKSDCA]

I'm attempting for better or worse to cut out the middle man and do most of the shopping/buying myself. If you can get somebody to do the plans to the point where the permits are approved....the rest is just shopping and finding an installer that is able to moonlight on evenings/weekends to pick up a few extra grand. I have scored some radical great deals on panels and the inverter by power shopping it.