Water Tank vs Battery Bank ?

[MarineLiner]

It's impossible to use a pressure tank (w/wout bladder) to store water for hydro power.
... for energy storage, batteries are way better.

Yes, I just want to "dig" upto what "level" of efficiency we can make use the water storage.
In Wiki, Pressure Vessel, I read:
.5psi per foot of water head.
Let's use 1m head then get 1.5 psi.
Shut the valve, then get "additional" pressure from gravity (less than 1.5 psi).
Open the valve for a while then close again, get "additional" .....

[crxvfr]

Here's one for you MarineLiner.
Solar Hydro Steam (Distiller).

[MarineLiner]

Thank you very much.
It's very informative.
Then, some one told me gravi-chek.com :
Water flows through the drive pipe into the pump and out through the waste gate. The buoyant ball will be pulled down by the flow of water and block the waste gate.

Here the ball has blocked the waste gate.* The incoming water forces the spring loaded check valve open, allowing water to fill the surge tank, compressing the air in the tank.

When the pressure in the surge tank equals the pressure in the drive pipe, the water from the drive pipe can no longer flow into the pump, a

[MarineLiner]

Motorless Water Pump--Gravi-Chek

http://www.gravi-chek.com/html/how_it_works.html

I mean air pressure and bouncing similar like this,
but to power a turbine, not just for lifting water.

[MarineLiner]

PICTURE:

http://www.gravi-chek.com/assets/images/Gravi2a.gif

Installation
Shown here is a diagram of a typical Gravi-Chek installation.* The labels on the diagram are linked to information about each item.

River source / Supply / Water level

In order to activate the Gravi-Chek pump you will need to locate a clean water source with an applicable fall.*
If the source is not clean, your pump may malfunction.* You may require a filter or sedimentation tank at the connection from your water supply to your drive pipe.*
If you use a tank as the supply and the water needs filtering, install the filter on the supply side of the tank instead of at the start of the drive pipe; this allows water to enter the drive pipe unrestricted (any restriction at the drive pipe will reduce the water flow to the pump, lowering pump efficiency).* The water level in the supply tank should be at least twelve inches higher than the drive pipe to avoid air entering the drive pipe.
If air enters the drive pipe, pump performance will decrease and the pump may stop working.

Fall requirement / Drive pipe:

The fall to drive pipe relationship is 1 - 5 ; that is, for every foot of fall, five feet of drive pipe is required.* For example, a four foot fall requires a twenty foot long drive pipe.* An increase in the pump

[Mike90250]

What is described is a RAM PUMP, been around for hundreds of years, simple, and works. Many companys make them, in varied styles, but they can't generate enough lift, to store much useable water for hydro, even pumping for free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_pump

[MarineLiner]

..... RAM PUMP, been around for hundreds of years, simple, and works.
..., but they can't generate enough lift, to store much useable water for hydro, even pumping for free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_pump

[MarineLiner]

Conversation about idea

Me:

I checked your website and found the water hammer mentioned at Key
Components page.

Herewith, I want to ask your help to try implementing my idea of Water
Hammer used as an additional pressure in rotating the turbine.
Water hammer effect as created in the hydro ram pump can be used to
increase power pressure to the turbine.

Hope you could catch what I try to accomplish in turbine design.

My friend:

water hammer is a momentary event and only happens when water valve is closed and the water to the turbine is stopped.
So you would lose all turbine power during the water hammer event.
I do not see the logic or merit to this, sorry.

Me:[QUOTE]I meant of use it as in Hydro Ram Pump, the shut valve can open and
close all the time.
The hammer effect created along the penstock can be maxim

[MarineLiner]

This hydro ram pump use water hammer which become stronger because of using air pressure tank.
What i want is to use the stronger power to rotate the turbine.
In other word, increasing efficiency, with the same volume of water, accelerated by the use of pressure tank we can creating/generating more power.

[MarineLiner]

A Zero point magnetic power generator is basically a Free Energy Generator.
It uses magnets, and magnetic force to induce perpetual motion.

It runs by itself, indefinitely without stopping, thus creating completely free electrical energy,

Earth4Energy, Citizenre, and other Misleading Solar Info - Page 5 - Solar Panel Help Desk

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?p=11216#post11216

At the time of trying to find a more efficient storage,
someone has "found" a Free Energy Generator.

[MarineLiner]

Another Try

Me:
"I need your help to design pico hydro turbine which use water hammer effect to increase efficiency."

Another friend:

Okey, of course. What type ( Impulse or reaction) and capacity ( in kW) of Pico hydro turbine you wish to design ?

Me:
"Thanks, I want to combine hydro ram pump and turbine like these:
1. Connect the exit valve of a hydro ram pump to the nozzle of turbine. Assume we have Fall : Drive ratio as 1:5 that required to generate the water hammer effect.
2. Connect the delivery of the ram pump to another nozzle of turbine.
By that, we get extra power created by the hammer effect to increase the turbine power. Hope you can catch what i meant."

[MarineLiner]

Try #3

REPLY:

I think if it "just an idea" that it will be difficult to find someone to
produce it, especially if you have no previous experience in hydroelectric
turbine design. You are going to need to find an engineer who knows something about hydroelectric turbine design, who you can either pay to make a design for you or who will partner with you on this.
Alternatively, you
can buy one of these existing small turbines and start working on this
yourself by altering it.
If you have a working prototype you can maybe then
interest manufacturers or bankers.

[Mike90250]

micro/pico power turbines want high head pressure, and high flow rates, niether of which are avaiable from a Ram pump. What could be done, is a ram pump or several, pump up to an elevated storage tank, and then that tank can feed your turbine for a couple houers a day..

that's how I'd do it.

[russ]

Like Mike pointed out - there is a volume problem. From a previous post -

In very rough numbers, a 1000-gallon tank 100 feet high could store about 3-4 kWh

Lots of water at near 7 barg pressure and very little power.

[MarineLiner]

..... then that tank can feed your turbine for a couple houers a day..

that's how I'd do it.