6kW system in Agoura Hills

[Jgarry]

I read it make sense to run your pool pump during the day while solar is being produced? But wouldn't it just be a wash because you would be selling that power back to the grid anyway. What am I missing? Thanks.

[Ampster]

It al depends on your rate plan. I charge my cars at $0.15 at night and let my solar earn credits at $0.30 to $0.50 per kWh during peak rate. I am on a TOU plan.
I assume you are talking about PV solar not thermal solar.

[SunEagle]

I read it make sense to run your pool pump during the day while solar is being produced? But wouldn't it just be a wash because you would be selling that power back to the grid anyway. What am I missing? Thanks.

Some POCO's do not pay for any kWh that a home owner can generat. For that matter some POCO's won't even let you put anything back on the grid let alone pay you for it.

There are POCO's that still have NET metering which usually means they will pay you the same amount they charge you for each kWh you put back on the grid.

[Ampster]

Some POCO's do not pay for any kWh that a home owner can generat. For that matter some POCO's won't even let you put anything back on the grid let alone pay you for it.

There are POCO's that still have NET metering which usually means they will pay you the same amount they charge you for each kWh you put back on the grid.

I agree in those cases it would be more efficient to self consume if your rate plan ot Net metering plan is not favorable to load shifting.

[gvl]

I'm on NM but my solar friendly grandfathered TOU-D-A rate with SCE is set to expire this month. No longer will I be able to generate enough credits to 0-out my bill with 80% offset, so basically it won't matter much when I run the pump or charge my EV as long as I don't do it during high-peak as with the new high-peak hours I will have little to no production during that time.

[Ampster]

I'm on NM but my solar friendly grandfathered TOU-D-A rate with SCE is set to expire this month. No longer will I be able to generate enough credits to 0-out my bill with 80% offset, so basically it won't matter much when I run the pump or charge my EV as long as I don't do it during high-peak as with the new high-peak hours I will have little to no production during that time.

Are you on NEM 1.0 or 2.0. Depending on your usage and rate differentials there still may be strategies to leverage rates with your EV.

[gvl]

Are you on NEM 1.0 or 2.0. Depending on your usage and rate differentials there still may be strategies to leverage rates with your EV.

I'm on 1.0 so it shouldn't matter as long as I stay away from on-peak. I understand on 2.0 it can be beneficial to charge during the day to avoid the nonbypassable fee for taking energy from the grid. I just need to crunch the numbers to figure out which of the current TOU rates will cost me less for my usage patterns before they switch me over.

[Ampster]

I was in SCE territory with several EVs until two years ago so I am not familiar with your options today. I generally have consumed more than I have produced but have had a dollar credit. That is working out less optimally now that I have NBCs and the rates periods are less favorable. I am now investing in more ability to self consume because there is only so much you can do with load shifting. I am resigned to paying a fixed charge just to have the grid be there on rainy days.

[gvl]

They've eliminated super off peak and shifted on-peak to 4-9/5-8 depending on the plan. Not too many options in other words.

[loungelizard]

They've eliminated super off peak and shifted on-peak to 4-9/5-8 depending on the plan. Not too many options in other words.

They're still doing super off peak rates but only in the winter from 8 AM to 4 PM. Coincidence that those times are the same as solar production? Odd that super off peak in the winter wouldn't be from, say, midnight to 6 AM.Hmmmm...

https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/Time-Of-Use-Residential-Rate-Plans

[gvl]

You're right, I didn't even realize they called it super-off-peak. Speaking of adding insult to the injury... In some ways I regret not getting a larger system when I could.

[J.P.M.]

[QUOTE=loungelizard;n414350]

They're still doing super off peak rates but only in the winter from 8 AM to 4 PM. Coincidence that those times are the same as solar production? Odd that super off peak in the winter wouldn't be from, say, midnight to 6 AM.Hmmmm...

https://www.sce.com/residential/rate...ial-Rate-Plans/QUOTE]

There's nothing special about what a particular hourly rate is called. They could be called A,B,C,D,E & F and the bills and consequences would be unchanged.

Before NEM 2.0, that is, under NEM 1.0, peak summer T.O.U. rates - the only hourly rate that was really head & shoulders above the other hourly rates, both for summer and winter seasons were in effect6 from 0800 - 1600 civil time, weekdays. All other rates for all other times were relatively close in $$ value to one another, regardless of name.

Existing and qualifying NEM 1.0 customers got to keep some of the more generous T.O.U. rates under NEM 1.0 w/ "grandfathered" rates for up to 5 yrs. after PTO.

Under NEM 2.0, and with it the realigned T.O.U. times, new PV users must take T.O.U. rates of some sort.

The reality is that the new T.O.U. rates under NEM 2.0 as compared to the old NEM 1.0 T.O.U. rates in effect at the rollout made a given PV system about 22% to about 25% less cost effective than the same system operating under the old NEM 1.0 T.O.U. rates. Some of that is due to NBC's, but most of that reduction in system cost effectiveness was due to changing the billing schedule times of peak charges to later in the day - away from times of likely peak PV generation - and more in line with peak demand on the grid. There were some other changes with respect to lengths of sumer vs. winter seasons and a few other things, but overall, most of the loss of cost effectiveness is due to the shift in peak times away from peak PV generation times.

Rates and times are and have always been gerrymandered to maximize profit for the service provider. What happened when PV took off, as a result of distributed generation that the POCO had little control over (residential PV) , was that POCO revenue suffered due to politics and the darling of NEM, and, additionally, supply and demand got out of whack from that lack of control in ways that made life increasingly difficult for the POCO's to keep in whack.

[gvl]

Just ran some quick and dirty calculations based on my detailed usage for the last 12 months. Considering my usage patterns are going to stay the same I'm looking at about $1k annual cost bump because of the TOU rate switchover. I guess I can't complain too much as I had a good run from 2015 and the system mostly paid for itself by now, but I became spoiled by not having to worry about my energy bill, and this is going change. If SCE will let me switch to the tiered plan as a NEM 1.0 customer that may actually work better as my net annual grid energy usage is just about the same as my baseline allocation, but I suspect this won't be an option.

[J.P.M.]

Just ran some quick and dirty calculations based on my detailed usage for the last 12 months. Considering my usage patterns are going to stay the same I'm looking at about $1k annual cost bump because of the TOU rate switchover. I guess I can't complain too much as I had a good run from 2015 and the system mostly paid for itself by now, but I became spoiled by not having to worry about my energy bill, and this is going change. If SCE will let me switch to the tiered plan as a NEM 1.0 customer that may actually work better as my net annual grid energy usage is just about the same as my baseline allocation, but I suspect this won't be an option.

Changing back to a tiered rate may be a possibility, but a call to the POCO may be worth it. I'm w/ SDG & E, and aside from the trick that required users to positively and actively elect to stay on tiered rates or they got switched to T.O.U. rates w/PV users on tiered rates going to the T.O.U. rate for PV system owners, another dirty little trick I seem to remember that SDG & E plays on NEM 1.0 users and tiered rates is that those NEM 1.0 customers on tiered rates who chose or in the future choose to try a T.O.U. rate, and see how it goes and subsequently find out it/think it sucks, can only change to another T.O.U. rate, but not back to the old tiered rate. At this time, a tiered rate will be available for NEM 1.0 users who choose to stay on a tiered rate.

But, check w/ SCE for particulars with respect to getting back to tiered rates. I'm pretty familiar w/ SDG & E stuff, and somewhat but less familiar w/ other CA POCO details, but from what I read (and reading between the lines) on the SCE website, whether you're allowed to go back to tiered rates or not may depend on whether or not SCE considers tiered rates to be strictly "grandfathered" rates.

On your $1K est.: That seems to sort of fit with what I think I've seen in checking out the idea that the step from grandfathered rates to non-grandfathered rates 5 yrs. after PTO (but, and as an aside- and note - for SDG & E anyway, and I believe the other CA IOU's --- >>>>, in no case beyond 07/31/2022) decreases system cost effectiveness by ~ 20% - 25 % or so.

An example only: For the situation in zip 92026 where I am, every installed STC kW of an unshaded south facing, 20 deg. tilt array under DR-SES grandfathered rates will offset ~ $615/yr. of an electric bill. Using the non grandfathered rates that amount drops to ~ $485/yr. or ~ 79 % as much as under grandfathered rates.

I'm waiting for the questions and weeping/gnashing of teeth when the unexpected hammer drops on those currently on grandfathered rates but don't know what's going to happen.

Anyway, under NEM 2.0 grandfathered rates and DR-SES, an unshaded 6kW system around here with that orientation - provided it's not sized to overgenerate - will produce very approx. ~ (6.0 STC kW) * ($615/STC kW * yr) ~ $3,690/yr. or so to offset an electric bill.

The same system under the NEM 2.0 (non grandfathered) rates will produce ~ (6.0 STC kW) * ($485/STC kW * yr.) ~ $2,910/yr. to offset an electric bill or ~ $780/yr. less.

Your mileage will vary depending on location and POCO.

[gvl]

Thanks J.P.M., you're a wealth of knowledge about solar and it surely benefited me when I installed my system in 5 years ago. I actually ended up with a 9kW system after all so this topic's title is not up to date. With 9kW your estimates seem to be right on the money here as well. 9kW at 80% offset worked pretty well for us up until now with an EV, I would end each NEM period with $100-200 in credits despite being a net consumer to the tune of 3,000kwh. If nothing else, I will consider the rate change to be an opportunity to find ways to further decrease the footprint.