Any studies on non solar homes around solar homes?

[carzin]

I have my ARB proposal on Tuesday. I have the studies proving the value that solar adds to the installed home. I can find nothing that supports that surrounding homes are not negatively affected. Does anyone have any information they can share?

[J.P.M.]

I have my ARB proposal on Tuesday. I have the studies proving the value that solar adds to the installed home. I can find nothing that supports that surrounding homes are not negatively affected. Does anyone have any information they can share?

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. The ones I've seen don't "prove" anything, one way or the other. Maybe you have something I've not seen yet. We've discussed this at some length already. IMO, arguing the value of a property based on any particular point or feature is moot. A property is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Not one red cent more. While you are entitled to your opinion, which I respect, I am of the opinion that existing solar on a property may well be a turn off to some buyers, and in any case may well decrease the pool of potential buyers for a property. I'm a big solar advocate, and I believe I know a little about the subject, but I'd never consider buying a property with an existing solar electric system on it. Opinions vary.

[carzin]

I don't think you read my question. While you are entitled to your opinion, the most recent study from Berkley Labs I think settles the debate. On average, panels improve home values significantly, and since Berkeley Labs is a 750M a year research institution, I am prone to believe their research on home sales. You obviously are on the far end of the spectrum, being overly knowledgeable and opinionated on solar panels as to not trust or want any system that you didn't build. You are likely a 1%.

My question was regarding neighboring homes, and if the visibility of panels on your property will have any adverse effects on neighbors' properties. Its a difficult thing to defend (or quite honestly to promote) without actual data.

[J.P.M.]

I don't think you read my question. While you are entitled to your opinion, the most recent study from Berkley Labs I think settles the debate. On average, panels improve home values significantly, and since Berkeley Labs is a 750M a year research institution, I am prone to believe their research on home sales. You obviously are on the far end of the spectrum, being overly knowledgeable and opinionated on solar panels as to not trust or want any system that you didn't build. You are likely a 1%.

My question was regarding neighboring homes, and if the visibility of panels on your property will have any adverse effects on neighbors' properties. Its a difficult thing to defend (or quite honestly to promote) without actual data.

I believe I and others here have seen the several papers from the Berkeley folks.

I read your question and tried to answer it. As it turns out, I was probably correct in my (unmentioned) guess that the Berkeley stuff was what you were referring to. That realtors seem to love it is another reason for me to be cautious. For another thing, that type of stuff uses data that is out of date on publication, as are any predictions or analysis about dynamic systems. As I wrote, a property is only worth what someone is willing to pay, so it seems that we might be in agreement on the +/- value being difficult to defend.

I have never built a solar electric system, but I do claim some knowledgeability about residential solar applications. On limits: I'm not sure it's possible to be overly knowledgeable about anything from a purely philosophical, or practical standpoint. As for opinions, They tend to be like noses - and other body parts - most everyone has one, most of them smell and some are downright ugly. However, this seems to be a place to express them (opinions that is).

Having watched the installation of about 60+ systems as the person in my HOA responsible for review and recommendation for approval to the Arc. Rev. Comm. for solar installations, all except one got approved without much if anything in the way of hassles, and that one is under revision. Another opinion: if the homeowners knew some of what I think I know about solar energy, there would be a lot fewer installs around here. My sometimes cynical opinion about some solar vendors and about the abysmal ignorance of most of their marks has only been confirmed and reinforced by the experience. The systems are safe and to code, but some are a real mess, grossly oversized and often inappropriate for the application, and the owners are clueless about it. Not my money/house/life, but another of several reasons why I'd not want a house with an existing solar electric system on it.

So, If you're saying I don't want a house with an existing solar electric system on it based on what I think I might know based on experience and observation, I guess I agree with you. Pay your money, take your choice.

[russ]

I don't think you read my question. While you are entitled to your opinion, the most recent study from Berkley Labs I think settles the debate. On average, panels improve home values significantly, and since Berkeley Labs is a 750M a year research institution, I am prone to believe their research on home sales. You obviously are on the far end of the spectrum, being overly knowledgeable and opinionated on solar panels as to not trust or want any system that you didn't build. You are likely a 1%.

Berkley Labs do some great stuff and some silly stuff as well. In the present political climate no government organization will come out with anything against RE - some times correct and sometimse not.

My question was regarding neighboring homes, and if the visibility of panels on your property will have any adverse effects on neighbors' properties. Its a difficult thing to defend (or quite honestly to promote) without actual data.

There is no good data as such though if you research om the net you may find some green blather to support the position.

[peakbagger]

There is plenty of so called research that is out there that will justify whatever case supports the entity funding it. Many studies miss out on the correlation does not equal causation issue. Home values are inherently a very local market so the increased value for solar in one area may be decreased in others.

There is a proposed power line that runs through NH, the utility hired one firm for significant dollars to prove that running a new transmission line across rural properties did not impact the value of the property. An opponent of the project with financial resources hired a similar caliber firm and came to the opposite conclusion. It all came down to where their source of data came from.

[azdave]

Does a solar home in the area affect the value of non-solar homes?
Asthetics wise, there's enough solar around here that I don't think people even notice it all that much like 5-6 years ago. It's just something you get used to seeing. I don't think a typical solar install hurts the value of non-solar neighbors. In my case my neighbors can't see my panels anyway due to the lot layout.

Does a solar install add to my appraised value?
Not in my case. I just refinanced my house in December. The appraiser noted that a 6.3K grid-tie was installed just 2 months prior and that it was functional, properly permitted and fully paid for. The appraiser said he could give no credit (plus or minus) to my overall home value as he had no basis to assign a value for solar panels.
I had plenty of equity to complete the deal so fortunately, a high or low appraisal had no affect on completing the refi.

[SunEagle]

I don't think you read my question. While you are entitled to your opinion, the most recent study from Berkley Labs I think settles the debate. On average, panels improve home values significantly, and since Berkeley Labs is a 750M a year research institution, I am prone to believe their research on home sales. You obviously are on the far end of the spectrum, being overly knowledgeable and opinionated on solar panels as to not trust or want any system that you didn't build. You are likely a 1%.

My question was regarding neighboring homes, and if the visibility of panels on your property will have any adverse effects on neighbors' properties. Its a difficult thing to defend (or quite honestly to promote) without actual data.

Probably the reason you haven't found any data showing what are the "adverse effects" of solar panels having on neighbor's properties because there isn't any good data out there.

One place to look might be Real Estate companies and ask them about home sales being affected by a neighbors panels. That is if they want to share that info with you. On the flip side if they do want to share ask if solar panels have increased the value of home sales.

I wouldn't just go by a single study like Berkley Labs unless they provide very detailed data on all real estate sales (good or bad) around the country with reference to solar panels.

Based on conversations I have had with RE agents in my area, there doesn't seem to be any good or bad affects on sales due to solar panels on or next to the property.

[carzin]

The Berkely study that was just released is the most comprehensive study. The looks at homes in a lot of markets, including my market (they looked at about 100 homes in the NC/VA/Pen/Maryland area that sold over the last 10 years, and compared to many homes not solar. They used multiple models to eliminate bias. The full report is about 60 pages. I have read it beginning to end. I don't understand all the complicated math, but I understand all the key elements. Obviously, local markets can differ, but on overage, it appears a good bet.

But as to the value of my neighbor's homes... I asked my realtor to see what she could find out. She emailed 100 realtors in her company. None came back with anything negative. Most had never sold a solar panel in their life. I am in North Carolina, and these things are VERY rare here, unlike California. It is a huge differentiating factor in this area. Its the reason the HOA appeal is going to be dicey, because while North Carolina is in the top 5 states for solar production, it is still very rare to see it in neighborhoods.

Bottom line with the HOA, I will have studies to back up my stance, and the opponents will not. That's the big key.

The only thing I have left is the panel choice. I had the panels brought by today for the meeting. The conductive strips (silver) are definitely clearly visible when you look straight at the panel. But then I took them outside and put them at an angle matching the pitch of the roof, and walked away to the closest viewing distance, and you wouldn't know the grids were there unless you saw them. I am considering getting a quote on Sun Power X21 panels, as they are totally black, but I am concerned that I will be getting too much clipping with the Enpower Microinverter, and I'll essentially collect less energy than with 270 WATT panels that clip on 20 watts at the peak. Obviously, with the 300+ watt sun power panels, I'll collect more in the day.

For the record, I have to go microinvertor. I have no choice. My roof has multiple pitches, and a gable that splits the roof. A string inverted system isn't possible unless I want to significantly reduce my collection.

[sensij]

For the record, I have to go microinvertor. I have no choice. My roof has multiple pitches, and a gable that splits the roof. A string inverted system isn't possible unless I want to significantly reduce my collection.

A SolarEdge inverter+optimizers would offer the same benefits as microinverters in this respect, at about the same cost, with improved Sunpower compatibility. However, it would require the installation of a string inverter, which may be an aesthetic problem based on your earlier posts.

I'm not sure I understand the objection your HOA has raised. Are they afraid that by installing solar panels, you will be reducing the value of the neighboring properties, because of the view? It sounds like a very location specific problem, and unlikely to have been covered in studies because of the high number of variables that go into how an installation looks. Good luck.

[russ]

The Berkely study that was just released is the most comprehensive study. Yep - it pacified the green demands of the present administration - the same bunch that is paying hundreds of dollars to thousands of dollars per gallon of bio fuel - really a sharp bunch. You better hope the HOA is populated by fools for them not to nderstand this.

But as to the value of my neighbor's homes... I asked my realtor to see what she could find out. She emailed 100 realtors in her company. None came back with anything negative. No emails came back so all is well?

Bottom line with the HOA, I will have studies to back up my stance, and the opponents will not. Come on!

Comments in bold within the text. Don't try to BS BS'ers

[Sunking]

I don't think you read my question. While you are entitled to your opinion, the most recent study from Berkley Labs I think settles the debate.

Spoken like a Caliphonie. In TX and many other states solar has negative equity. You loose 75% of the installed cost instantly. Solar in states where energy is cheap is a negative.

[pleppik]

In TX and many other states solar has negative equity. You loose 75% of the installed cost instantly. Solar in states where energy is cheap is a negative.

For my own edification, is that your opinion, or do you know of someone who has actually tried to collect some data on the question?

[carzin]

It's real easy to criticize with absolutely nothing to back it up.

In my state, the post tax credit cost along with energy company credits of a 20k system is 6k. With 1000 saved a year on electricity, it's a 6 year payback, yet I find it hard to believe I wouldnt get 6k additional out of the house if I were to sell it immediately. It's a 6k risk. No much to worry about.

This board is an odd one. Supposed to be a bunch of solar advocates, but there seems to be a lot of negativity. Don't quite get it, but I don't plan to be too closely involved with this ecosystem.

For those with useful comments, I appreciate it.

As to the solar edge, that would apparently be the choice for the upgraded panels. I don't think I am going to offer it at the hoa.

[Sunking]

This board is an odd one. Supposed to be a bunch of solar advocates, but there seems to be a lot of negativity.

It is called educated and reality. We don't eat Green Chit. You get the truth and hard facts here, not hype and Green Blather.