LG vs Sun Power

[Bikerscum]

Say whatever you want to say. You can live in your world, and I live in my world. If you live in Bay Area, you will see more luxury cars than Chevy. You may see a lot of Chevy trucks from construction workers, but you don't see Chevy cars in the shopping malls (maybe a few Covette or Camaro). Ask the members from LA and San Diego, do they see Lexus, BMW more or Chevy cars (don't count the trucks)?

The majority of the Lexus and BMW's you see are leased, because the people that drive them can't afford to own them.

Not sure how that fits in your cost analysis scenario.

The idea that there are more of them than Chevy's is just silly.

Yes I'm in the Bay area.

[dat]

About the choice of car - BS - but if you like your fairy tale world have a wonderful time - playing with Puff the Magic Dragon.

Say whatever you want to say. You can live in your world, and I live in my world. If you live in Bay Area, you will see more luxury cars than Chevy. You may see a lot of Chevy trucks from construction workers, but you don't see Chevy cars in the shopping malls (maybe a few Covette or Camaro). Ask the members from LA and San Diego, do they see Lexus, BMW more or Chevy cars (don't count the trucks)?

[russ]

I do not know if they will be around for 25 years, but I am willing to take the risk because they are the best in the mean time. If you are happy fine but that is not correct really.

As for buying a Ferrari or Chevy, it is personal choice. People still buy more Ferrari, BMW, and Mercedes than Chevy. At least none of the people I know have a Chevy. Most of the people I know drive Lexus, BMW, or Mercedes.

About the choice of car - BS - but if you like your fairy tale world have a wonderful time - playing with Puff the Magic Dragon.

[dat]

They will be around for 25 years to cover the warranty? Or maybe they offer third party insurance in the event they go down.

You can buy a Ferrari to go to the market in but a Chevy works as well - doesn't impress the neighbor but then the neighbor couldn't care less anyway.

I do not know if they will be around for 25 years, but I am willing to take the risk because they are the best in the mean time. As for buying a Ferrari or Chevy, it is personal choice. People still buy more Ferrari, BMW, and Mercedes than Chevy. At least none of the people I know have a Chevy. Most of the people I know drive Lexus, BMW, or Mercedes.

[russ]

I understand your point. Sometime I would pay more for the best and be proud of it. Plus the Sunpower covers 25 years warranty for both product and performance. So at $4.30, Sunpower is 25% more than Canadian Solar, I consider that 25% as the 15 years product insurance and get the best for myself. I know you have a Sunpower system yourself and I admire your system. I wanted a Sunpower system, but I cannot justify its price over $5 per watt. For LG, I won't pay $3.8 per watt. I rather go with SolarWorld for less if you don't like Canadian Solar.

They will be around for 25 years to cover the warranty? Or maybe they offer third party insurance in the event they go down.

You can buy a Ferrari to go to the market in but a Chevy works as well - doesn't impress the neighbor but then the neighbor couldn't care less anyway.

[dat]

I was responding to your comment that at $4.30/Watt you'd go with Sunpower. Read/Sounded like a recommendation based on price is all. $5+/Watt for S.P. is not unusual.

Since I'd assume the end goal and purpose of the exercise is to lower an electric bill in the most cost effective way possible rather than install solar electric solely for its own sake, $3.38/Watt for C.S. is also probably a more cost effective choice.

I understand your point. Sometime I would pay more for the best and be proud of it. Plus the Sunpower covers 25 years warranty for both product and performance. So at $4.30, Sunpower is 25% more than Canadian Solar, I consider that 25% as the 15 years product insurance and get the best for myself. I know you have a Sunpower system yourself and I admire your system. I wanted a Sunpower system, but I cannot justify its price over $5 per watt. For LG, I won't pay $3.8 per watt. I rather go with SolarWorld for less if you don't like Canadian Solar.

Yes, the end goal and purpose of the exercise is to lower an electric bill, but I know a lot of people (include myself) will pay extra for the owner pride and look of the system if the price is right.

[J.P.M.]

Then why not install Canadian Solar panels for $3.38 per watt (or less) likes my system ($24100 for 7.14 kW), you can install a larger system. I took my choice with Canadian Solar because I don't get any quote less than $5 per watt for Sunpower.

I was responding to your comment that at $4.30/Watt you'd go with Sunpower. Read/Sounded like a recommendation based on price is all. $5+/Watt for S.P. is not unusual.

Since I'd assume the end goal and purpose of the exercise is to lower an electric bill in the most cost effective way possible rather than install solar electric solely for its own sake, $3.38/Watt for C.S. is also probably a more cost effective choice.

[dat]

Pay your money, take your choice.

Or, another option/view as I believe Sensij suggested on another thread: buy a bigger LG 300 system for the same price as the smaller S.P. 327 system:

Example: 327 X 16 X $4.30 = $22,497.

$22,497/($3.80) = 5,920 Watts --->>> 5,920/300 = ~ 20 LG 300's = 6 kW system w/annual output ~ = 1.85 X 6,000 = 11,100 kWh vs, 9,389 for the smaller S.P. system for about the same price ($3.80 X 6,000 = $22,800).

Probably not as cost effective as the smaller LG system, but some folks want to go large.

Then why not install Canadian Solar panels for $3.38 per watt (or less) likes my system ($24100 for 7.14 kW), you can install a larger system. I took my choice with Canadian Solar because I don't get any quote less than $5 per watt for Sunpower.

[J.P.M.]

If I can get $4.30/w for SunPower E20/327, I definitely go with Sunpower.

Pay your money, take your choice.

Or, another option/view as I believe Sensij suggested on another thread: buy a bigger LG 300 system for the same price as the smaller S.P. 327 system:

Example: 327 X 16 X $4.30 = $22,497.

$22,497/($3.80) = 5,920 Watts --->>> 5,920/300 = ~ 20 LG 300's = 6 kW system w/annual output ~ = 1.85 X 6,000 = 11,100 kWh vs, 9,389 for the smaller S.P. system for about the same price ($3.80 X 6,000 = $22,800).

Probably not as cost effective as the smaller LG system, but some folks want to go large.

[dat]

I'll be the first to say that estimating programs like SAM do indeed produce no more than estimates and are to be taken that way - estimates of output, not predictions of performance. However, I believe if the input conditions including wiring, fouling, annual load estimates and other parameters are reasonable representations of actual conditions and the equipment representations are correct, that changing panels from Sunpower 327's to LG 300's may result in a fair estimate of the difference in annual output between the two.

So, in zip 92026, TMY3 for Miramar MCAS, tilt, 18.75 deg., az. 195.75 deg., 3% fouling, 1% wiring loss, 5 kW string inverter, 12 year time frame and costs of $3.80/Watt and $4.30/Watt, less 30% tax credit :

16 X 327 S.P. : 1st yr. annual output = 9,389 kWh., declining at 0.4%/yr. Annual production est./nameplate Watt = 9,389/(16 X 327) = 1.79 kWh/nameplate Watt. LCOE ~ $.1726/kWh at sys. cost = $4.30/nameplate Watt less 30%.

16 X 300 LG : 1st yr. annual output = 8,867 kWh., declining at 0.7%/yr. Annual production est./nameplate Watt = 8,867/(16 X 300) = 1.85 kWh/nameplate Watt. LCOE ~ $.1498/kWh at sys. cost = $3.80/nameplate Watt less 30%

FWIW: my system 1st yr. output , the S.P. system above with the parameters as shown put out 9,563 kWh with some late afternoon shading.

If I can get $4.30/w for SunPower E20/327, I definitely go with Sunpower.

[J.P.M.]

I agree with that. I'm surprised that it was posted that LG's put out more power per watt than SunPower. We've done hundreds of systems with both and that is now what we typically see.
The LG Microinvertres are brand new so their is virtually no field experience. That is an excellent price for SPR327

Andy

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
solar Design Engineer

I'll be the first to say that estimating programs like SAM do indeed produce no more than estimates and are to be taken that way - estimates of output, not predictions of performance. However, I believe if the input conditions including wiring, fouling, annual load estimates and other parameters are reasonable representations of actual conditions and the equipment representations are correct, that changing panels from Sunpower 327's to LG 300's may result in a fair estimate of the difference in annual output between the two.

So, in zip 92026, TMY3 for Miramar MCAS, tilt, 18.75 deg., az. 195.75 deg., 3% fouling, 1% wiring loss, 5 kW string inverter, 12 year time frame and costs of $3.80/Watt and $4.30/Watt, less 30% tax credit :

16 X 327 S.P. : 1st yr. annual output = 9,389 kWh., declining at 0.4%/yr. Annual production est./nameplate Watt = 9,389/(16 X 327) = 1.79 kWh/nameplate Watt. LCOE ~ $.1726/kWh at sys. cost = $4.30/nameplate Watt less 30%.

16 X 300 LG : 1st yr. annual output = 8,867 kWh., declining at 0.7%/yr. Annual production est./nameplate Watt = 8,867/(16 X 300) = 1.85 kWh/nameplate Watt. LCOE ~ $.1498/kWh at sys. cost = $3.80/nameplate Watt less 30%

FWIW: my system 1st yr. output , the S.P. system above with the parameters as shown put out 9,563 kWh with some late afternoon shading.

[PVAndy]

For that price, I would go with Sunpower.

I agree with that. I'm surprised that it was posted that LG's put out more power per watt than SunPower. We've done hundreds of systems with both and that is now what we typically see.
The LG Microinvertres are brand new so their is virtually no field experience. That is an excellent price for SPR327

Andy

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
solar Design Engineer

[dat]

For that price, I would go with Sunpower.

[Ian S]

The LG sounds like the microinverter is integrated with the panel. What track record does the microinverter have or is it new? Unless you have shading issues, many would question the utility of microinverters. It depends somewhat on your location too: extreme high roof temperatures may affect their reliability. Check the warranty to ensure that labor - i.e. rooftop work - to replace defective microinverters is included. Unless you are very limited on roof space, panel efficiency doesn't really come into play but reduced degradation over time that is apparently seen with Sunpower panels is an advantage. The main question becomes what initial price premium is that worth? Sunnyboy inverters are well-regarded and certain models have the option of providing some power when the grid is down and the sun is shining. That's a nice feature IMHO.

[Bikerscum]

You can also just get the standard LG300 panels, and pair them with Solaredge optimizers, might save some $ for a system that performs the same.