Mounting inverter in Phoenix: Garage or Outside?

[silversaver]

I could probably go with a different inverter but I don't know how much extra it would cost.
Plus, just because Fronius inverters were bad in 2010/2011 doesn't mean they haven't improved on their products since there.

Good point. It is just like a bad installer can be improved in 2014.

[fuzzelogic]

No problem, I REALLY hope for your sake they have improved the quality control, BUT I doubt it which is why they are so quick to accept a bad inverter for a RMA issue.

Since you seem to be doing your homework regarding the install including the placement of the inverter and all the other threads started, I assumed you were very concerned about the install going flawless and having a system that was reliable.

What is the saying about the weakest link in a chain?

[HX_Guy]

True, I want the system to work well and be reliable but I also have a certain budget and am not willing to spend thousands more so the name of the game is what's the best installed, layout and setup I can do with the items I have to work with.

[Volusiano]

FWIW I have 2 SMA Sunnyboy 4KTL and 7K installed on the outside of the garage on the east facing wall, behind the wall (for better security) and maybe 5 ft from the main circuit panel. If your inverter is the old transformer type design it would be better to put it on the outside IMO because the transformer tends to generate more heat (hence requires a cooling fan or two), and it also hums. The noise may not be an issue depending on what you have adjacent to the garage. But the heat for sure will add to the already hot enclosed garage. Don't forget that you'll also benefit from wind/air movement on the outside, while there would be no air moving inside the garage.

Plus, garage inside wall is premium space for me and I use that whole inside wall (where the inverters are on the outside) to hand all of my ladders, big and small.

[fuzzelogic]

True, I want the system to work well and be reliable but I also have a certain budget and am not willing to spend thousands more so the name of the game is what's the best installed, layout and setup I can do with the items I have to work with.

Have you asked the installer the prices of a different inverter compared to Fronius?

It looks like when searching the web though the cost of Sunny Boy 8000 vs Fronius 7.5 isn't really that far off between the 2 inverters

[HX_Guy]

I did ask about multiple inverters and they said it would be around $4000 more to do dual inverters between the cost of the extra inverter, the combiner panel and the extra labor. Seemed high so sticking with a single inverter and making the best of it.

[silversaver]

Good luck

[silversaver]

Have you asked the installer the prices of a different inverter compared to Fronius?

It looks like when searching the web though the cost of Sunny Boy 8000 vs Fronius 7.5 isn't really that far off between the 2 inverters

SMA 8000TL or US only has single MPPT.

I did ask about multiple inverters and they said it would be around $4000 more to do dual inverters between the cost of the extra inverter, the combiner panel and the extra labor. Seemed high so sticking with a single inverter and making the best of it.

If you need 2 inverers, then you better off using 2. If you already spend this much of money and trying to cut corner only hurt yourself. Your installer doesn't really care about your performance. If it aint break, it is not their business.

[HX_Guy]

2 inverters wouldn't solve my problem really. I would still have to have 4 strings of 12, though each string would be on it's own MPPT. It would help, somewhat, but not enough.

The ideal situation would be 6 strings of 8, then the layout could really be optimized to avoid as much of the shade as possible. That would require 3 inverters though which isn't going to happen.

[silversaver]

2 inverters wouldn't solve my problem really. I would still have to have 4 strings of 12, though each string would be on it's own MPPT. It would help, somewhat, but not enough.

The ideal situation would be 6 strings of 8, then the layout could really be optimized to avoid as much of the shade as possible. That would require 3 inverters though which isn't going to happen.

There are few 6kW or smaller inverters with dual MPPT that will take care of 4 strings of 12. If you really want 6 strings of 8 panels, you should have install the system on your own. Just imaging yourself as installer, how are you going to deal with your own kind of customer. If you are going with your own design, why not install the system on your own.

Like I said, you like to challenge mission impossible. I'm not even sure you are here for real or having some fun after all.

[HX_Guy]

I know there are smaller inverters with dual MPPTs (like the Power One 6000US), that's what I said. I could do two inverters and have a total of 4 strings x 12 panels. It would still have to be the same layout so I don't see any real advantage, do you?

I'm actually trying to make the install as simple as possible (4x12, 1 inverter). It's everyone else saying to go with multiple inverters which would make it more complicated.

[Volusiano]

$4K more for 2 smaller inverters seems kinda high. When I told my installer I preferred 2 smaller SMA inverters instead of their proposed big SMA, they agreed without charging me anything extra, even though they had to add the combiner panel and derate my main panel as well. They said the cost difference isn't significant enough so they won't nickel and dime me for the extras.

But if you want to stick with 1 inverter for simplicity, I don't see anything wrong with that.

The reason I wanted 2 inverters is because they originally proposed an 8K SMA inverter for 10.2KW of panels. Even though the SMA website said the 8K inverter can handle the 10KW panels OK, I didn't want to risk clippings so I told them to give me a 4K and 7K and I'll size it to 11KW.

[HX_Guy]

I agree, it's very high actually. I told him I expected it to be about $1000 more. I'm thinking they just prefer to install one inverter vs two so they made the price high enough to where I don't want to go that route? Either way, I don't really see any big advantage to going with the 2 inverters vs 1 since the layout remains the same.

BTW Volusiano I remember your user name MyNissanLeaf forums...was really close to pulling the trigger on a Leaf a few years back and your posts made me think twice with the heat issues.

[Volusiano]

BTW Volusiano I remember your user name MyNissanLeaf forums...was really close to pulling the trigger on a Leaf a few years back and your posts made me think twice with the heat issues.

Glad to hear that my posts on MyNissanLeaf helped some people think twice about the heat issue. It also helped get Nissan to agree to buy back my LEAF. I used that money to buy a Volt instead. It's worked out much better for me now with the Volt.

[Volusiano]

Either way, I don't really see any big advantage to going with the 2 inverters vs 1 since the layout remains the same.

The advantage of going with 2 smaller inverters is to have 4 strings of 12 panels on 4 separate MPPT (assuming each inverter can give you 2 dual MPPTs each), where you can string the panels with the same orientation up on the same string for optimum performance. That way, your strings are optimized for their different orientations.

I notice that you do have south, east and west facing panels on your roof, so there may be some advantage to have 4 strings to optimize to your panels' different orientations. I copied the pic you use of your layout to show my point. Here you actually have 5 sets of 10 panels, and we're talking about just 48 panels above, so it's not apples to oranges, but you get the idea, because the way you numbered your panels is mostly to group those with the same orientations together.

5strings.jpg