Solar City info needed

[wanabefree]

How large of a system did they propose ?

Exactly what you said about the 2.9% per year, is what the salesman quoted me. Also starting with .15 per kwh.
I live in southern california & my home was built in the 60's, so my house (which i just purchased 4 years ago) was really never energy efficient.
My annual Southern Edison bill is about $2628, and my monthly average is about $219, with the bill will spike in the hot summers up to around $450. The Edison bill would be around $34 or less, once the panels are installed, and I would pay SolarCity about $130. By the way, for those that know southern california I'm in the hot Inland Empire.

Seems like there's a lot of factors in buying or leasing these panels.

I am in Hot Inland Empire too. My home was built in 1979 and is a little more energy efficient than some. I am putting in a 6.25kw system but it faces west so I loose about 10% efficiency.
You say you will be paying about $130 per month that is an average of 866 kwh so it must be a pretty big system or that is your peak summer production. My system is supposed to give me on average about 750 kwh and that is 90% of my last years consumption. My last year level pay plan was $206.00 per month but I have trimmed that some with energy changes like all cfl or led lights and a better programmable thermostat.
If you have not already done so take a hard look at energy conservation upgrades first as they tend to have the best return on investment. Solar can be great but you have to make sure you size your system correctly and do your home work on the actual costs.

[yankeeboy]

How are you guys averaging the kwh with the dollar amount?

Also, can anyone point me in the direction of the so called HERO program. I heared about it a few months back, but don't have all the details. My understanding the cost of the solar panels was suppose to be added to your property taxes for the next 20 years, but I'm not sure, and want to get more info.

[yankeeboy]

By the way,
I asked the salesman to send me an attachment which includes the price, if I decide to purchase the panels.
The price is $18,008, after $7,718 federal tax credit.
Is this a lot?

Also, the attachment claims the estimated system size would be 5.25 KW DC, with an estimated annual production of 9,208 kwh.
I'm not sure if this is correct?

Does anyone know is we can upload PDF files? I don't mind sharing what the salesmans emailed me.

[JohnInSoCal]

get several quotes because you can play them off each other. I was amazed how much the quotes change once there is competition in the mix, even the lease guys come down quite a bit. Also if lease is the way you want to go look at pre-paid lease (my sunrun prepaid quote works out to 11 cents a Kwhr) , no escalator. I live where you do, inland empire (Norco) and use a lot of AC in the summer. I also got several purchase quotes and the prices were all over the place ranging from over $5.50 a watt to the lowest I have seen at $4.11 a watt. As it stands now my prepaid quote is about the same as my purchase quote once I take into account the fed tax credit so if I decide to go solar would likely just purchase the system.

As mentioned look into conservation and energy efficiency. I changed out high usage lights to LED, got rid of a few mini fridges and took out a freezer in the garage and reprogrammed my variable speed pool pump and last month I had the lowest bill I can ever remember at $144 where last year same month was $375 and year before was $400. I am also looking into adding insulation to the attic. I don't know if I will go solar route or not, payback seems to be 6-7 years at my old usage rate of 2300 Kwh a month but if I am more efficient going forward the payback would be even longer.

[JohnInSoCal]

By the way,
The price is $18,008, after $7,718 federal tax credit.
Is this a lot?

this works out to $4.90 a watt. I think you can do better. I have quotes at $4.10 a watt, some of it will depend on the panels / inverters you get quoted on. Some on this form have quotes in the $3 range but I haven't had a quote that good yet, maybe if I got cheaper panels it could approach that but the cheapest quote I have so far is with kyocera panels and sma inverters.

[pleppik]

Also, the attachment claims the estimated system size would be 5.25 KW DC, with an estimated annual production of 9,208 kwh.
I'm not sure if this is correct?

I don't remember if you told us where you live, but unless you're in Arizona or Southern California, this production estimate sounds much too high. As a quick-and-dirty rule of thumb, one watt of PV capacity in most parts of the U.S. can give you 1.0 to 1.2 kWh per year if it's ideally oriented. In the desert southwest, you can get up to two kWh per year per watt. You can get a much more accurate estimate using the free PVWatts tool online.

Did they do a proper site survey? Someone should have climbed around on the roof and used a gizmo to figure out where the shading would be at various times of the year, measured the orientation of the roof, etc.

[wanabefree]

By the way,
I asked the salesman to send me an attachment which includes the price, if I decide to purchase the panels.
The price is $18,008, after $7,718 federal tax credit.
Is this a lot?

Also, the attachment claims the estimated system size would be 5.25 KW DC, with an estimated annual production of 9,208 kwh.
I'm not sure if this is correct?

Does anyone know is we can upload PDF files? I don't mind sharing what the salesmans emailed me.

I did a quick run of your numbers through PVwatts and came up with 8900 kwh @ .83 derate and 180deg (south facing) using my address since its close to you. So the output numbers could be accurate. From what I have seen the total cost should be less than $4 per DC kw so as the previous poster said the purchase price is on the high side.

[alienwulf]

In answer to your question about the Hero Program you can go on line to apply. Anyone owning a home is approved. I decided not to go that route. They are a lending company that works with the program that requires you pay an interest of about 5.6% depending on the number of years 5 - 10 -15 or 20.. also there is a prepaid penalty if paid of with in 5 years. It would of added to my tax bill about 1200 twice a year. If you sell your home are the buyers going to want an extra tax on the property? I decided to just take some retirement money and pay for the darn thing. My thinking was if I have payments and interest might as well keep the bill. I hated to part with 21000.00 but now its done I am in a since free.

[yankeeboy]

I did a quick run of your numbers through PVwatts and came up with 8900 kwh @ .83 derate and 180deg (south facing) using my address since its close to you. So the output numbers could be accurate. From what I have seen the total cost should be less than $4 per DC kw so as the previous poster said the purchase price is on the high side.

If your interested I can email you the attachment with the info the salesman provided. I'm Ok with doing it, since only private info is my name and address, nothing else.

[JohnInSoCal]

also for the HERO program be careful about the "fees" which in my case were in the 3-4 thousand dollar range which seemed incredibly high to me. They quote you a 5% interest rate but when they tell you what the monthly payment is it simply didn't jive with that rate so I called them up on the phone and they explained all the "fees" that are not documented on the website. If you have equity then a HELOC would probably be a better finance choice.

[yankeeboy]

With all the info on this post, I'm starting to wonder if I should just start small...like changing out all the windows, adding insulation to the attic, and maybe a solar attic fan before committing myself to solar panels. It would be cheaper, but I would hate to have another summer with high expensive Southern Edison bills.

Has anyone ever used the HERO program, to have all the above mentioned replaced, instead of just for solar panels. I'd be curious to see what prices they ended up paying.

[slopoke]

With all the info on this post, I'm starting to wonder if I should just start small...like changing out all the windows, adding insulation to the attic, and maybe a solar attic fan before committing myself to solar panels. It would be cheaper, but I would hate to have another summer with high expensive Southern Edison bills.

Has anyone ever used the HERO program, to have all the above mentioned replaced, instead of just for solar panels. I'd be curious to see what prices they ended up paying.

Where I live the summers are in the mid 90s to low 100s, I put in a whole house fan a few years ago and it really cut down my summer bill by quite a bit. If I remember correctly, it cost approx $1500 to install. That included seven additional roof vents, labor and fan unit. Depending on the outside temp, I can lower the inside temp by 5 to 7 degrees in an hour. I work nites and my wife runs it before bed and I run it when I come home in the early am and cold soak the house. By doing that, the A/C dose not come on til the early to mid afternoon.

[JohnInSoCal]

whole house fan (which I have) works well in spring time where it cools down pretty well at night and you can use that instead of AC to move in cool air. But in the summer time here in inland empire it can't be used because it never gets cool enough. I'm kind of in the same spot as you right now, I have solar quotes but I am sitting on them right now deciding what to do. Conservation can help and the payback is quicker than solar but in the end I will still have a fairly hefty summer time bill for running my 2 AC units so my big question is whether or not a 6 year solar payback would be worth it for me to do.

[Ian S]

whole house fan (which I have) works well in spring time where it cools down pretty well at night and you can use that instead of AC to move in cool air. But in the summer time here in inland empire it can't be used because it never gets cool enough. I'm kind of in the same spot as you right now, I have solar quotes but I am sitting on them right now deciding what to do. Conservation can help and the payback is quicker than solar but in the end I will still have a fairly hefty summer time bill for running my 2 AC units so my big question is whether or not a 6 year solar payback would be worth it for me to do.

If you have run the numbers as accurately as possible and they yield a six year payback for solar then, I wouldn't hesitate. That's a pretty decent return. The only caveat would be if you are planning a move before that time then I'd think on it more. If a move is not planned and you can stay put for a couple of decades, then there is probably no better investment at this point in time. That's assuming you have implemented as much (low cost) conservation as possible.

[JCP]

I've insulated my house, put a whole house fan, got a solar attic fan on the roof and replaced my bulbs with LEDs. At this point, I'm conserving as much as I can, so on to solar. The insulation was by far my best investment. Anybody with an old drafty house with no insulation should start there.