Solar City info needed

[KRenn]

SolarCity is just not interested in selling the installs at all. They want to compete with the utilities. $3.50 a Watt before incentives seems to be on the low end of what people pay here in Norcal.

Even their prepaid # sucks though.

[J.P.M.]

Here's an updated table of the gross $ per watt before the federal tax credit and incentives.
(I added a column in my spreadsheet.)

Purchase plans:
Sunpower - 5.4 kW @ $28,075 = $5.20 per watt
SolarCity - 6 kW @ $29,400 = $4.90 per watt
Sungevity - 6.25 kW @ $21,957 = $3.51 per watt
RGS - 6.6 kW @ $27,506 = $4.17 per watt
REC/Sunrun - 6.2 kW @ $21,653 = $3.49 per watt

Pre-paid PPAs
SolarCity - 6 kW @ $25,490 = $4.25 per watt
Sungevity - 6.25 kW @ $15,365 = $2.46 per watt
REC/Sunrun - 6.2 kW @ $14,845 = $2.39 per watt

(Obviously, the the federal tax credit is factored in to the pre-paid PPAs.)

Since you ask:

1.) Seems that $3.50 is about as low as it gets in NoCal. If that's the market, I'd not pay more unless I was getting something necessary but unavailable from the others.

2.) I'm biased against leases/PPA's so my opinion is not objective. Depending on your tax situation, it looks like these leases/PPA's don't get you much except maybe fearmongering B.S. about what are probably overinflated future maintenance requirements and limited future options.

3.) I'd find a decent local installer with a track record and avoid the big lease cos. Contact the subs that Sungevity uses, see if they're worth a sniff and will deal with you direct.

[rocketcity]

From the looks of it Sungevity is a good one as long as they are using some high quality inverters now. The company they used in the past isnt one that I am very fond of.

I got information about the Sungevity inverter...Is this one good?:

SMA TL Series Inverters Site:

http://www.sma-america.com/en_US/products/grid-tied-inverters/sunny-boy/sunny-boy-6000tl-us-7000tl-us-8000tl-us-9000tl-us-10000tl-us-11000tl-us.html

SMA TL Spec Sheet:

http://files.sma.de/dl/4752/SUNNYBOY5678_AFCI-DUS141110W.pdf

[JCP]

Since you ask:

1.) Seems that $3.50 is about as low as it gets in NoCal. If that's the market, I'd not pay more unless I was getting something necessary but unavailable from the others.

2.) I'm biased against leases/PPA's so my opinion is not objective. Depending on your tax situation, it looks like these leases/PPA's don't get you much except maybe fearmongering B.S. about what are probably overinflated future maintenance requirements and limited future options.

3.) I'd find a decent local installer with a track record and avoid the big lease cos. Contact the subs that Sungevity uses, see if they're worth a sniff and will deal with you direct.

Everything he said. I'd add one more: go to Yelp and find installers with good reviews. That's how I found mine. Called 5 installers, talked to them, worked with a couple that I liked, and bargained to an amount that seemed fair in light of what others are paying on this site. Can't complain so far.

[Ian S]

I got information about the Sungevity inverter...Is this one good?:

SMA TL Series Inverters Site:

http://www.sma-america.com/en_US/products/grid-tied-inverters/sunny-boy/sunny-boy-6000tl-us-7000tl-us-8000tl-us-9000tl-us-10000tl-us-11000tl-us.html

SMA TL Spec Sheet:
http://files.sma.de/dl/4752/SUNNYBOY...DUS141110W.pdf

Yes, SMA inverters are good. As to going prepaid vs purchase, if you can make full use of the 30% non-refundable tax credit within a year or two and don't mind maybe not having the full 20 year coverage of the system that you would with the lease, then the purchase makes sense. But I would suggest finding a couple more local installers for pricing of a purchased system. Note even if you can't make use of the tax credit via current taxable income, with some planning, you could always reclassify some portion of a conventional IRA to a Roth to get your taxable income up to where you get the full use of the tax credit. Note: don't just take money out of an IRA unless you're older than 59 1/2 and so can avoid the withdrawal penalty.

[silversaver]

I was wondering if I purchase the SMA extended warranty now, would I be able to claim the 30% Fed incentive? My soalr were installed last year.

Anyone?

[alienwulf]

Yes, SMA inverters are good. As to going prepaid vs purchase, if you can make full use of the 30% non-refundable tax credit within a year or two and don't mind maybe not having the full 20 year coverage of the system that you would with the lease, then the purchase makes sense. But I would suggest finding a couple more local installers for pricing of a purchased system. Note even if you can't make use of the tax credit via current taxable income, with some planning, you could always reclassify some portion of a conventional IRA to a Roth to get your taxable income up to where you get the full use of the tax credit. Note: don't just take money out of an IRA unless you're older than 59 1/2 and so can avoid the withdrawal penalty.

Shopped around did not care for the lease's either but got 24 Sunpower x20 panels Solar Edge SE-6000-A-US for 21,282.00 after credit's and incentives. 25 year warranty with labor from Sunpower and 10 year included to 25 year on the inverter with labor. After 3 months on line I have been over producing negative to SCE. Paid out of a CD that was getting less than 1% figure better use of money this way time will tell if I was right.

[lorribarnes]

solar arizona

Mine is $2.50/DC Watt before incentives purchased in AZ. This is with Canadian Solar and SMA string inverters. I think the pricing varies a lot depending on where you're at, so good deal in one place doesn't translate to good deal in another place.

Wondered who this was thru? Seems like a great price. Thanks

[Volusiano]

Wondered who this was thru? Seems like a great price. Thanks

I sent you a PM.

[MySolarFriend]

The PPA buyout option begins in year 6. If you can, it is always better to purchase. Only problem with purchasing through SolarCity is the less than great panels they offer.

[J.P.M.]

The PPA buyout option begins in year 6. If you can, it is always better to purchase. Only problem with purchasing through SolarCity is the less than great panels they offer.

Which, among other things, may say something about what large outfits think about the cost effectiveness and reliability of expensive panels and the hype that goes with them.

[rocketcity]

The PPA buyout option begins in year 6. If you can, it is always better to purchase. Only problem with purchasing through SolarCity is the less than great panels they offer.

I haven't been able to pin SolarCity down on a purchase price in year 6 of the PPA.
Has anyone else been able to get this info from them?

[MySolarFriend]

Mod note - If you want to help someone do it on the site -

[ChocoChock01]

SolarCity panel Quality?

The PPA buyout option begins in year 6. If you can, it is always better to purchase. Only problem with purchasing through SolarCity is the less than great panels they offer.

We are in our third year of the installation and are seeing nearing 20% drop in production (same periods for each yr). It is closer to 10% yr 1-2 and 8.5% yr. 2-3.

Being concerned about the 10 % drop yr. 1, the customer service response is "there are many factors (environmental) that will determine production and the output has not fallen below their min. stated in the contract. End of discussion.

Yr. three we are getting about 8.5% drop in production (comparing equiv. periods) AND last yr. they pointed me to their FAQs where they have season variation as a multiplier to the size of the array.

(I went to look for the link on SolarCity website and got this message:
"This site has been disabled for the time being."

https://solarcity.custhelp.com/ci/pta/login/redirect/answers/list/p_li/VqbOW7fLpVoxwoxInotxFAai1LWZskR8eekln3NpKtt9jjcY0DyLAZNSms~gc5IVsExTOJVdb9SQbg2PqCf4Nd7aFZwLjQC~YO~9LQqYwP7ydtRYaGhrAJcXUXy_n47m

Taking the SolarCity factors for Min-Max expected production, one period fell below min in 2013, and two periods fell below min. in 2014.
Denoted by *.


3.055 kW Solar Production 2 yr drop 3 yr drop Daily Min Max

Days 2014 2013 2012 2014 2013 2012 Typical cal

JAN 31 206 241 249 96.8% 82.73% 17.27% 6.65 7.77 8.03 3.06 9.17

FEB 28 231 283 318 89.0% 72.64% 27.36% *8.25 10.11 11.36 *9.17 15.28

MAR 31 350 380 409 92.9% 85.57% 14.43% 11.29 12.26 13.19 9.17 15.28

APR 30 427 429 457 93.9% 93.44% 6.56% 14.23 14.30 15.23 9.17 15.28

MAY 31 447 475 543 87.5% 82.32% 17.68% *14.42 15.32 17.52 *15.28 21.39

JUN 30 464 477 542 88.0% 85.61% 14.39% 15.47 15.90 18.07 15.28 21.39

JUL 31 0 396 526 75.3% 0.00% 100.00% 0.00*12.77 16.97 *15.28 21.39

AUG 31 0 434 483 89.9% 0.00% 100.00% 0.00 14.00 15.58 9.17 15.28

SEP 30 0 371 381 97.4% 0.00% 100.00% 0.00 12.37 12.70 9.17 15.28

OCT 31 0 307 320 95.9% 0.00% 100.00% 0.00 9.90 10.32 9.17 15.28

NOV 30 0 213 224 95.1% 0.00% 100.00% 0.00 7.10 7.47 3.06 9.17

DEC 31 0 203 186 109.1% 0.00% 100.00% 0.00 6.55 6.00 3.06 9.17

29.04% 2012-2013
2125 4209 4638 80.32% 2012-2014

Jan-Jun 2125 2285 2518
0.9299781182 0.9074662431 1


We are in S Cal (in a drought for the last several years) and the panels are washed every qtr.

The conclusion I am coming to is the panels are deteriorating quickly and I am left paying for the additional power I need.
SolarCitys follow up has been very poor, which is something you can't really experience pre-purchase.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

[rocketcity]

Did you lease or purchase this system from SolarCity?
Don't you have a performance guarantee?