SoCal Lease Quote

[silversaver]

The only concern I had is will customer pay for the additional research and service? Will contrator co-operate?

So far I see on forum, everyone is looking for the "best price". Seems price out weight other factors.

JPM mention PVWatt isn't a a tool to predict production, what tool shall him use?

[bcroe]

Partial List?

You asked for it you got it.

We seem pretty much in agreement, I even have a bicycle. The main difference might
be sizing. Mine fit the space available; however, that WAS checked and found in line
with several other needs. Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

The only concern I had is will customer pay for the additional research and service? Will contrator co-operate?

So far I see on forum, everyone is looking for the "best price". Seems price out weight other factors.

JPM mention PVWatt isn't a a tool to predict production, what tool shall him use?

What additional research and service ?

Best price and lowest price are two different animals. I always thought best price is most bang for the buck as the buyer defines it, wisely or ignorantly. Lowest price is what it is and what many, but not all buyers never get past. I learned, buy cheap, buy twice, and it's bad to pay too much, but perhaps worse to pay too little.

Re: Tools.
I'd respectfully suggest you may want to read the cautions associated with using PV Watts. That provides a longer version of what I was referring to in another thread. I can only estimate system PERFORMANCE based on a certain set of inputs which I know will never exactly happen. That performance will change as the input changes (Read about how the TMY's are determined for additional information about the weather data that PV Watts and other software uses).Therefore, I cannot give a prediction of output any more than I can predict the weather. BTW, I believe climate change has little, if anything, to do with performance predictions. Over many periods of many months and many years, a system may very likely generate total, cumulative output somewhat close to what a decent design tool will come up with. As the PV Watts caution says, relatively short, individual periods like months can be off by "as much as" +/- 40 % or so and +/- 20% for individual years. 10-12% over many years.

Other uses of design tools may be to compare the output of different systems of similar size under the same set of inputs , or seeing the effects of changing sizes, orientations , loads, etc. on the same system.

I think may folks, maybe even you, may be under the impression that if you do better in any month than PV Watts, or, in CA, that dumb-ass CSI P.O.S ("performance of solar", that is) calculator says, your system is putting out more energy than someone thought it would. That may be, but that excess performance may have more to do with misuse of the software to underpredict performance to more easily talk customers into larger systems. Believe it or not, it really does happen. No salesperson I know of ever got fired for selling too much.

[albert436]

We seem pretty much in agreement, I even have a bicycle. The main difference might
be sizing. Mine fit the space available; however, that WAS checked and found in line
with several other needs. Bruce Roe

Wow that looks like a quite large system, how many kW again?

[SunEagle]

Wow that looks like a quite large system, how many kW again?

That's only part of his system. He added a double row of panels on the left which face both East and West. That photo must be from an earlier time. Bruce built a very impressive system.

[bcroe]

Google Maps

Wow that looks like a quite large system, how many kW again?

You can see it pretty much fits the space. The satellite must have taken the picture July or
August, before I did more construction. I don't think they will update with snow on the ground.
72 panels, 18KW DC, 15KW AC. With all the clouds here, I was looking for a way to add panels
that boost sun day power early & late, as well as overcast, without really raising noon peak.
So Sept/Oct built another, nearly vertical N-S row splitting the space the other way. I think it
is working; somewhat overcast all of today (snowed at 17:30), but made 85 KWH anyway.

Nearer the shed (upper right) is some work, might become another array after I figure out
how to simulate the hour by hour (summer & winter) output of different alignments.

Just got a letter from my propane supplier; starting today the propane I bought for $1.50 a
gallon goes to $5. $5 = gallon propane = 27 KWH = $2.22 from Com Ed (or $0 from the sun).
I'm going to try and stretch my half tank of propane till the price drops; what KWH I can't
generate, I'll buy. Bruce Roe

[Naptown]

Just got a letter from my propane supplier; starting today the propane I bought for $1.50 a
gallon goes to $5. $5 = gallon propane = 27 KWH = $2.22 from Com Ed (or $0 from the sun).
I'm going to try and stretch my half tank of propane till the price drops; what KWH I can't
generate, I'll buy. Bruce Roe

Holy price jump Batman.
fire up those baseboard electric heaters
Actually depending on the efficiency of your furnace or water heater it will be less than the cost of electric. Cost you quoted is based on 100% efficiency of the propane appliance which will never happen other than on ventless stuff for heat. so 80% efficient = $1.766 electric equaivalent and a bit more for for higher.
Both are based on a COP of 1

[SunEagle]

You can see it pretty much fits the space. The satellite must have taken the picture July or
August, before I did more construction. I don't think they will update with snow on the ground.
72 panels, 18KW DC, 15KW AC. With all the clouds here, I was looking for a way to add panels
that boost sun day power early & late, as well as overcast, without really raising noon peak.
So Sept/Oct built another, nearly vertical N-S row splitting the space the other way. I think it
is working; somewhat overcast all of today (snowed at 17:30), but made 85 KWH anyway.

Nearer the shed (upper right) is some work, might become another array after I figure out
how to simulate the hour by hour (summer & winter) output of different alignments.

Just got a letter from my propane supplier; starting today the propane I bought for $1.50 a
gallon goes to $5. $5 = gallon propane = 27 KWH = $2.22 from Com Ed (or $0 from the sun).
I'm going to try and stretch my half tank of propane till the price drops; what KWH I can't
generate, I'll buy. Bruce Roe

Maybe it is time to raise some live stock and process their waste into some "barn yard gas" to run your heaters. Not as good a propane but it will burn.

[Cypress]

Maybe it is time to raise some live stock and process their waste into some "barn yard gas" to run your heaters. Not as good a propane but it will burn.

Man this thread de-railed big time.

[Cypress]

Just an update...after getting several other quotes from other providers, this was still, by far, the best deal I encountered. For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain that Sunrun is currently the most competitively priced lease out there.

Given that, I'm not going to pull the trigger at this time. Even though I would save about 700 a year, this whole ordeal has been a huge turnoff that I just decided to stand pat and do nothing. Socal Edison wins this round. Maybe I'll research again in a year or so...

[inetdog]

Just an update...after getting several other quotes from other providers, this was still, by far, the best deal I encountered. For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain that Sunrun is currently the most competitively priced lease out there.

Given that, I'm not going to pull the trigger at this time. Even though I would save about 700 a year, this whole ordeal has been a huge turnoff that I just decided to stand pat and do nothing. Socal Edison wins this round. Maybe I'll research again in a year or so...

Sorry to hear that.
"Illegitimi non carborundum"

[silversaver]

Solar isn't the best way to save money. If you have extra cash, great. If not, think twice. It will became more affordable, but watch out the new rules about solar from your utilities companies.