SoCal Lease Quote

[J.P.M.]

A WAG? Not sure what you mean here. He already stated twice now, including in his first post, that there is no escalators. Most solar companies have gone away from this or they at least give you the option. Starting lower payments w/ escalator, or slightly higher payment with no escalator. They have also addressed the issue of what to do if you sell your house. The new owner doesn't have to take over lease payments anymore...they give you options to buy the system outright. And not just buyout the lease. Buy the actual equipment, thus terminating the lease and the new owner keeps the equipment. All someone needs to do is factor that into your homes selling price...and in California...like someone already said...solar panels are a huge plus and add value for sure....

Re: Solar panels being a huge plus - Unless I can predict the future and read the mind of a potential buyer, solar equipment may or may not add to the value of a property. I wish and hope it does because I own a home equipped with the stuff, but wishing may not translate to reality. Something is worth no more and no less than a buyer's opinion and last time I checked, opinions vary. I try to think like a buyer who may think differently about it than me. I think the stuff can be good and I'm a big fan, but I wouldn't buy a property w/solar equipment on it. But that's just my opinion and good for me only. I'd also suggest, believe it or not, that there are some people who think solar sucks. Follow the money. Most of the positive stuff about solar increasing property values is parroted by people who have some financial stake in the outcome - real estate salespeople or owners of solar property. I don't hear too much from the real estate corner regarding possible disadvantages, but that may be due to ignorance, convenient or otherwise. Caveat Emptor.

[Ian S]

I own a home equipped with the stuff, ...but I wouldn't buy a property w/solar equipment on it.

I'd really be interested in your rationale for that.

[wanabefree]

I'd really be interested in your rationale for that.

I am thinking its because he wants solar built to his specs and wants it to be new. Like some folks don't like buying some elses used car or wants new carpet even if the old carpet looks fine..

[Ian S]

I am thinking its because he wants solar built to his specs and wants it to be new. Like some folks don't like buying some elses used car or wants new carpet even if the old carpet looks fine..

Maybe. But it's kinda like saying you won't buy a house because you don't like its perfectly good 5 year old roof. Heck the house itself is "used."

[wanabefree]

Maybe. But it's kinda like saying you won't buy a house because you don't like its perfectly good 5 year old roof. Heck the house itself is "used."

I can not speak for him but as an educated Solar customer I would definitely want to see all the details and especially be very cautious about assuming any lease. More likely IF the system were fairly new I would want the lease paid off or eliminated and adjust any offer I made to purchase on the current market value of the used system value. As a buyer I would want the numbers to add up in my favor not the sellers. I would likely look at it as a 1/2 off or better sale.So I would not pay full retail for a used system no matter what. On the other hand there are not that many educated buyers yet when it comes to Solar and and Especially the folks who think only about Green energy price is not always there motivation.

This may sound like a good argument against leases or PPA's in general but to me its not really a factor in my purchase/lease decision. I want Solar for me not the next buyer. It is like buying a car based solely off resale value. Financially it might make sense but I just accept that it is a depreciating asset and I make the most out of it while I own it and get the best trade in on the next one. In the mean time I am saving money on my monthly electric bill and at least for now it has cost me nothing.

[Ian S]

I can not speak for him but as an educated Solar customer I would definitely want to see all the details and especially be very cautious about assuming any lease.

I can see some negatives with assuming a lease but J.P.M. didn't want any solar which I assumed included leased or purchased. If I were purchasing, I'd be happy if the home had solar although I'd look closely at a leased system. Of course, I'd never let on to the seller that I liked solar. Rather I'd probably feign concern in an effort to negotiate a better price for the home.

[silversaver]

IMO, I think solars are good for homewoners regardless of lease or purchase. The only bad side I see is capacity of solar system. I might build a system that is good for me, but not necessary good for others or new home owners that purchase your house. Everyone has different demand on power usage. For example if new home owner uses less electricity than you, he or she might thinks the lease payment is too high. Of course if you paid for the solar already, the new homeowner will not complaint. On the other hand, even if you purchase out right for your solar, if the new home owner needs more, then he or she might find exist solar is a problem for them because he or she might not have enough roof space to add more panels.

You will not find a right answer for everyone, because we are all different.

That is the reason why I purchase my solar system, paid for them out right and cover 100% of my usage. If the new owner thinks the system is a good size, then he or she just save tons of money. If not, they can be remove to replace with new system. He or she doesn't have to deal with any 3rd party because there is a contract attach to the house.

I think the newer lease contract includes 1 time free of charge to move your solar system if you sell the house. I don't know how that works, but it could be done.

[J.P.M.]

I can see some negatives with assuming a lease but J.P.M. didn't want any solar which I assumed included leased or purchased. If I were purchasing, I'd be happy if the home had solar although I'd look closely at a leased system. Of course, I'd never let on to the seller that I liked solar. Rather I'd probably feign concern in an effort to negotiate a better price for the home.

Correct, I would not purchase any property with solar equipment on it, but maybe not for the reason(s) one might assume. Since it was brought up and leaving my opinions about buy vs. lease out of it for now - A PARTIAL list:

1.) IMO, solar electric systems are best sized to the load and its patterns which are almost never the same and mostly not even close.
2.) That load is affected by many things, one of which is the pattern of use by the inhabitants. The seller's load, timing and use patterns are most likely not the buyer's, my experience is usually by a lot. Why would I want a system configured to someone else's load ? If larger than I need, I'm paying for something I'm not going to use and it will be less cost effective. If smaller, I'll have the devil's own time increasing the system size in a cost effective way.
3.) Buying a system take it or leave it from someone who is probably solar ignorant and who got talked into it is kind of like an 80 yr. old granddma seller who stopped driving years ago saying: If you want my house, you must buy it and the vehicle in the garage, like it or not, but I'll give you a deal and only add $10K/?? to the price - such a deal - it's a 5 yr. old Hummer - and I'm a tree hugger that owns a bicycle. Or it's a Prius and I'm a motorhead drag racer. She got talked into the Hummer by the car sales person.
4.) One reason of many why people get solar screwed is because part of their considerable, mostly self inflicted ignorance on the subject makes them think that all solar electric systems are alike - sort of like toasters or water tanks. I pretty much stopped talking to folks about this stuff. Seems like anyone and everyone who ever read an article about solar energy, or got a pitch from a peddler, or talked to a neighbor with a system needs to impress me with how much they know and why I'm wrong for telling them what they may not like. I don't want a system purchased by someone with that level of knowledge on the subject. Too much else may have gone wrong and got buried.
5.) Related to that, most systems I've seen are, IMO, leaks waiting to happen. I've been shouting "get your roof inspected and serviced before you put collectors on it" to neighbors in my HOA. So far 4 out of about 50 or 60 of my neighbors have agreed with me. I have no reason to think the odds are better elsewhere. One saving grace around here is that it doesn't rain much. Solar installers are not roofers and vice versa. In general, I'm of the opinion most people abrogate responsibility and due diligence for a good job to the vendor, human nature takes over and the next owner suffers the consequences. I'd rather not be that owner. I don't like the odds.
6.) There is a lot of equipment on roofs that is, IMO, poorly laid out, with little regard for safety, shading, access, or serviceability. This happens partly because customers are clueless about what they're buying and partly because the vendor makes money putting equipment on roofs, well designed and thought out or not.
7.) Things are evolving. Today's solar equipment is probably safer, better designed, more efficient and more cost effective than equipment of 10 yrs. ago, or even 5. I'd prefer an empty roof, or much better yet open, shadeless flat ground, and put properly sized and designed equipment of my own choosing on it, not something getting long in the tooth bought by someone mostly ignorant about what they committed to because they wanted to climb on the solar lemming bandwagon and keep up with the folks next door and/or as a kneejerk stopgap to a profligate bloated electric bill that could have been much less with some effort, common sense and thought.

FWIW.

[J.P.M.]

I'd really be interested in your rationale for that.

You asked for it you got it.

[Ian S]

You asked for it you got it.

Thanks! Your argument about roof leaks may have some merit but most of the other reasons I think would be resolvable with an appropriate inspection combined with due diligence regarding panel vendor, installer, panel model, inverter, etc. But I guess we'll differ on that as we do on so many other things.

[J.P.M.]

Thanks! Your argument about roof leaks may have some merit but most of the other reasons I think would be resolvable with an appropriate inspection combined with due diligence regarding panel vendor, installer, panel model, inverter, etc. But I guess we'll differ on that as we do on so many other things.

We probably will disagree and I'm OK w/that as long as we're not disagreeable. I can inspect a pig with lipstick on it too, but it's still a pig. I wasn't seeking approval for my opinions. Be careful what you ask for.

Respectfully,

[russ]

Correct, I would not purchase any property with solar equipment on it, but maybe not for the reason(s) one might assume. Since it was brought up and leaving my opinions about buy vs. lease out of it for now - A PARTIAL list:

Good list but the solar "lovers" will never agree with it.

[silversaver]

With his knowledge about solar system, he can easy make living of designing/recommending solar system.

[J.P.M.]

With his knowledge about solar system, he can easy make living of designing/recommending solar system.

Two or three things I discovered about retirement: I wind up with more time than brains. I get to spread my mental spoor and bloviate all over forums such as this with less concern for opinion and professional standing, and I have less likelihood of getting fired. Is this a great country or what ?!?

[SunEagle]

Two or three things I discovered about retirement: I wind up with more time than brains. I get to spread my mental spoor and bloviate all over forums such as this with less concern for opinion and professional standing, and I have less likelihood of getting fired. Is this a great country or what ?!?

Words to stand by. It is a great country and I am happy and look forward to your comments and input.