My first quote in Texas. Please give your thoughts!

[rubdom]

I'd get w/ my tax advisor and be careful with respect to how the vendor for the Sunpower and Sun Edison seems to be handling the rebates/credits. I know nothing of Texas rebates, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that those rebates reduce the federal tax credit. Until I found out otherwise from someone w/no skin in the game, I'd use the higher #'s.
Also, the Sun Edison system looks to be a fair amount smaller than the other two.
Given your net metering method, I'd look at 12 separate, average months of your utility use and costs before and after adding each system. Using one number for a total year can be a bit misleading in most cases - more so in your case. With your monthly net metering reset, some extra care may be called for to get an optimum size - if any. Doing nothing if it doesn't make financial sense to you is also an option.
Lastly, each of these 3 systems will have different outputs.

Thanks! I believe that you can take the fed 30% before energy company rebate but will pay taxes on the full amount. If you take the 30% after rebate amount you only pay taxes on the price after the energy company rebate but of course it is now a smaller tax incentive. It all really depends what your tax rate is. Company B thinks they can only get 16 panels on my roof based off satellite. This may be the reason for the smaller system with the Edison. They haven't done an on site evaluation yet. Other companies are estimating 22-24.

[itnetpro]

I have the same panels here in PA area. Here was my cost...

40 250W Canadian Solar CS6P
40 Enphase 215 (Cilp at 225W) Micro inverters
Total cost $36,000
$3.60 per watt before incentive and tax credit

- Fed Credt $10,800
- State Grant $7,500
- Utility Company $400
Final cost = $17,300
$1.73 per watt after all incentives

Correct me if I'm wrong but my cost should be higher since I went with the 40 Micro inverters. This was not the cheapest quote but had the best warranty/cost/quality ratio of the companies that quoted me. What ever you do don't just go with the lowest bid. Even if its for the same stuff. Really take the time to look into the companies who are doing the installation. I checked everywhere from the BBB to Angies list and found nothing but praise for the company I choose. I also liked that my installer only did Solar and did their own installations. No outside contractors like most companies do. On top of all that they also had a nice benefit where they carry the cost of the federal, state and utility credit up to 12 months 0% interest until I get the money back to pay them. None of the other guys did that.

Solar Panel Manufacture Warranty 25 years
Microinverter Warranty 25 years
Real Time monitoring 25 years
Astrum Solar Service Warranty 20 years
Yearly production guarantee 20 years
New Roof guarantee (remove and replace panels) 20 years
Moving Guarantee (One move) 20 years remove and install at new location

[silversaver]

I have the same panels here in PA area. Here was my cost...

40 250W Canadian Solar CS6P
40 Enphase 215 (Cilp at 225W) Micro inverters
Total cost $36,000
$3.60 per watt before incentive and tax credit

- Fed Credt $10,800
- State Grant $7,500
- Utility Company $400
Final cost = $17,300
$1.73 per watt after all incentives

Correct me if I'm wrong but my cost should be higher since I went with the 40 Micro inverters. This was not the cheapest quote but had the best warranty/cost/quality ratio of the companies that quoted me. What ever you do don't just go with the lowest bid. Even if its for the same stuff. Really take the time to look into the companies who are doing the installation. I checked everywhere from the BBB to Angies list and found nothing but praise for the company I choose. I also liked that my installer only did Solar and did their own installations. No outside contractors like most companies do. On top of all that they also had a nice benefit where they carry the cost of the federal, state and utility credit up to 12 months 0% interest until I get the money back to pay them. None of the other guys did that.

Solar Panel Manufacture Warranty 25 years
Microinverter Warranty 25 years
Real Time monitoring 25 years
Astrum Solar Service Warranty 20 years
Yearly production guarantee 20 years
New Roof guarantee (remove and replace panels) 20 years
Moving Guarantee (One move) 20 years remove and install at new location

That's great service provided by the solar company. New roof and moving guarantee? BTW, there's a bank does 0% finance for 12 months, but super high rate after the 12 months period, just like 0% introduction rate credit card.

[rubdom]

I have the same panels here in PA area. Here was my cost...

40 250W Canadian Solar CS6P
40 Enphase 215 (Cilp at 225W) Micro inverters
Total cost $36,000
$3.60 per watt before incentive and tax credit

- Fed Credt $10,800
- State Grant $7,500
- Utility Company $400
Final cost = $17,300
$1.73 per watt after all incentives

Correct me if I'm wrong but my cost should be higher since I went with the 40 Micro inverters. This was not the cheapest quote but had the best warranty/cost/quality ratio of the companies that quoted me. What ever you do don't just go with the lowest bid. Even if its for the same stuff. Really take the time to look into the companies who are doing the installation. I checked everywhere from the BBB to Angies list and found nothing but praise for the company I choose. I also liked that my installer only did Solar and did their own installations. No outside contractors like most companies do. On top of all that they also had a nice benefit where they carry the cost of the federal, state and utility credit up to 12 months 0% interest until I get the money back to pay them. None of the other guys did that.

Solar Panel Manufacture Warranty 25 years
Microinverter Warranty 25 years
Real Time monitoring 25 years
Astrum Solar Service Warranty 20 years
Yearly production guarantee 20 years
New Roof guarantee (remove and replace panels) 20 years
Moving Guarantee (One move) 20 years remove and install at new location

That is pretty nice guarantee on the move. I haven't seen any company around here that will do that. I wanted to do microinverters but he said he has had a lot of failures here in TX since it gets so hot. We have high heat and humidity in TX. He said if I am ok with the inconvenience of having to call them every time an inverter fails then I should be fine with them. Not sure the extra cost but I will find out.

[Ian S]

That is pretty nice guarantee on the move. I haven't seen any company around here that will do that. I wanted to do microinverters but he said he has had a lot of failures here in TX since it gets so hot. We have high heat and humidity in TX. He said if I am ok with the inconvenience of having to call them every time an inverter fails then I should be fine with them. Not sure the extra cost but I will find out.

Unless you have shade issues, you might want to heed your installer and avoid the microinverters. I don't believe labor to retrieve and reinstall is covered any longer as part of the Enphase warranty.

[bcroe]

Propert Value Change

Second that. FWIW: My observation(s) and (very limited) experience with respect to property values and solar energy:

- Data is limited.
- Seems to make no quantifiable difference in my neighborhood.
- Those making the most noise about solar energy increasing property values seems to be real estate peddlers whose knowledge of solar energy often seems limited, or solar vendors who know squat about real estate.
- In the future, I'm not sure people will consider an "old" solar electric system on a roof as an advantage as much as a liability. If I was looking at property today that had, say, a 10 yr. old system on the roof I might think about how much it would cost to remove it, inspect/repaper the roof and replace it with a probably more efficient, smaller, newer and therefore "better" system. If I did think that way, the existing system would probably be considered a liability rather than a selling point.

That brings up the question, will a ground based system add more property value than a roof mounted system? Bruce Roe

[SunEagle]

That brings up the question, will a ground based system add more property value than a roof mounted system? Bruce Roe

For me it would but for others that want a soccer field probably not.

[inetdog]

For me it would but for others that want a soccer field probably not.

Nor for families with kids that throw rocks....

[J.P.M.]

That brings up the question, will a ground based system add more property value than a roof mounted system? Bruce Roe

Respectfully:

Your question seems to imply that all solar electric systems will increase the value of a property simply by virtue of being solar electric systems. I'm not sure that's something I'd agree with, at least not in all cases.

True enough - with a ground mount, my roof replacement scenario does indeed go away with the attendant extra cost to remove/replace the panels, as do the extra holes in the roof. So, I guess the easy answer is yes. However, another, and I'd argue perhaps equally valid answer is that a ground mount might detract less from the value of a property for some potential buyers because roof maint. would be easier and less $$'s, but still detract from the overall marketability and selling price, just not as much as the roof mount.

Most of my point is that some folks may not want an existing solar energy system making a property with existing solar less marketable - it may be viewed as limiting their options, or as an albatross. Or it may be viewed as desirable - it depends on the buyer and the situation - each one is unique.

- What if the solar is 10 yrs old, needs work and sits in the middle of the yard? Suppose potential buyers have kids and fears of electrocution surface ?
- Regardless of location, what if it's a lease and potential customers think leases are a bad deal ?
- What if the system is crappy panels of poor quality and the buyer wants or has been brainwashed into Sunpower ?
- What if it's oversized for the customers needs and the customer doesn't want to pay for more than their needs ?
- What if it's undersized ?
- What if they think solar is a sham and a ripoff ?

etc.

I can generate as many or more positive scenarios for making solar equipped houses more marketable for more $$'s but again, my point is that just because someone says solar is great and increases property resale values doesn't make it so. Maybe yes - but maybe no.

[silversaver]

Solar is actually an add on benefit of preperty, but really not a real asset. That's also why your property tax is exampt.

[J.P.M.]

Solar is actually an add on benefit of preperty, but really not a real asset. That's also why your property tax is exampt.

Active solar gets a property tax exemption in many, but by no means all places and is also usually eligible for fed./state tax credits and utility rebates for reason(s) that probably, IMO, have little if anything to do with any value the solar energy equipment may (or may not) add to real property as much as they do politician's and policy maker's attempts to curry voter's favor and/or influence societal direction and public opinion through manipulation of the tax code. Also, since in many places property assessments (from which property taxes are calculated) often bear little resemblance to actual market values, I'd suggest the real value of an asset is whatever the owner thinks it's worth, or in the case of a (potential) sale the value that the seller and buyer of the property agree upon. No more. No less.

[bcroe]

Respectfully:

Your question seems to imply that all solar electric systems will increase the value of a property simply by virtue of being solar electric systems. I'm not sure that's something I'd agree with, at least not in all cases.

True enough - with a ground mount, my roof replacement scenario does indeed go away with the attendant extra cost to remove/replace the panels, as do the extra holes in the roof. So, I guess the easy answer is yes. However, another, and I'd argue perhaps equally valid answer is that a ground mount might detract less from the value of a property for some potential buyers because roof maint. would be easier and less $$'s, but still detract from the overall marketability and selling price, just not as much as the roof mount.

Most of my point is that some folks may not want an existing solar energy system making a property with existing solar less marketable - it may be viewed as limiting their options, or as an albatross. Or it may be viewed as desirable - it depends on the buyer and the situation - each one is unique.

- What if the solar is 10 yrs old, needs work and sits in the middle of the yard? Suppose potential buyers have kids and fears of electrocution surface ?
- Regardless of location, what if it's a lease and potential customers think leases are a bad deal ?
- What if the system is crappy panels of poor quality and the buyer wants or has been brainwashed into Sunpower ?
- What if it's oversized for the customers needs and the customer doesn't want to pay for more than their needs ?
- What if it's undersized ?
- What if they think solar is a sham and a ripoff ?

etc.

I can generate as many or more positive scenarios for making solar equipped houses more marketable for more $$'s but again, my point is that just because someone says solar is great and increases property resale values doesn't make it so. Maybe yes - but maybe no.

None of those scenarios have anything to do with my question. No
it doesn't imply anything. If the value is negative, seems like having
solar far from the house would be a lot less negative.

Just what the future brings remains to be seen. If a property had a
small solar system, it likely wouldn't have much impact. Most buyers
have a pretty good idea what they are looking for; property with a
large solar system will go to someone who likes solar, or is serious
about saving energy.

Who and how even decide undersized/oversized anyway? My
definition probably differs from the next owner. A buyer discerning
enough to chose will buy accordingly, same for quality.

Safety is a concern; same for a pool. Fences, laws, etc apply to
such things. I know a lot of fatal pool incidents, non for solar yet.

I see my array got onto Google earth. The picture was taken between
June & Sept, because the second section isn't up. None of the
concerns raised here apply, being fenced & completely beyond
view of the house. No soccer field possible with the big changes
in elevation all over. Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

None of those scenarios have anything to do with my question. No
it doesn't imply anything. If the value is negative, seems like having
solar far from the house would be a lot less negative.

Just what the future brings remains to be seen. If a property had a
small solar system, it likely wouldn't have much impact. Most buyers
have a pretty good idea what they are looking for; property with a
large solar system will go to someone who likes solar, or is serious
about saving energy.

Who and how even decide undersized/oversized anyway? My
definition probably differs from the next owner. A buyer discerning
enough to chose will buy accordingly, same for quality.

Safety is a concern; same for a pool. Fences, laws, etc apply to
such things. I know a lot of fatal pool incidents, non for solar yet.

I see my array got onto Google earth. The picture was taken between
June & Sept, because the second section isn't up. None of the
concerns raised here apply, being fenced & completely beyond
view of the house. No soccer field possible with the big changes
in elevation all over. Bruce Roe

Is your system ground mounted ?

[russ]

= I'd suggest the real value of an asset is whatever the owner thinks it's worth, or in the case of a (potential) sale the value that the seller and buyer of the property agree upon. No more. No less.

Correct - the pool of home buyers that understand solar is quite limited in reality. Odds of solar adding to RE value are not good in most places.

[itnetpro]

That is pretty nice guarantee on the move. I haven't seen any company around here that will do that. I wanted to do microinverters but he said he has had a lot of failures here in TX since it gets so hot. We have high heat and humidity in TX. He said if I am ok with the inconvenience of having to call them every time an inverter fails then I should be fine with them. Not sure the extra cost but I will find out.

The Enphase 190 was a very unreliable Microinverter. I'm using the 215 inverters that clip at 225w. My brother-in-law has the 190s on his roof and has had to replace a few every year since his installation 3 years ago. So far the little data I have on the 215 they have no where near the failure rate. I have not lost any on my roof to date but my installation is not yet a year old. As for the warranty, Enphase did at one time pay for the labor to replace but after the 190s fiasco changed that warranty to just include the device itself. Its no concern for me because my Solar company Astrum will still replace my Microinverters free of labor for a 20 year period. The rep at Astrum did mention they wont deal in the 190 series anymore but so far 215 and 240 have been reliable. I do have shading issues especially during the winter. That and I like the ability to monitor each panel individually is why I went with Microinverters. There is no evidence to suggest the 215/240w Enphase Microinveters will be unreliable in hot climates. Easy enough to dispel, just post around for people living in Texas that use 215/240 Enphase Microinverters.

John