My first quote in Texas. Please give your thoughts!

[bcroe]

Propert Value Change

Second that. FWIW: My observation(s) and (very limited) experience with respect to property values and solar energy:

- Data is limited.
- Seems to make no quantifiable difference in my neighborhood.
- Those making the most noise about solar energy increasing property values seems to be real estate peddlers whose knowledge of solar energy often seems limited, or solar vendors who know squat about real estate.
- In the future, I'm not sure people will consider an "old" solar electric system on a roof as an advantage as much as a liability. If I was looking at property today that had, say, a 10 yr. old system on the roof I might think about how much it would cost to remove it, inspect/repaper the roof and replace it with a probably more efficient, smaller, newer and therefore "better" system. If I did think that way, the existing system would probably be considered a liability rather than a selling point.

That brings up the question, will a ground based system add more property value than a roof mounted system? Bruce Roe

[Ian S]

That is pretty nice guarantee on the move. I haven't seen any company around here that will do that. I wanted to do microinverters but he said he has had a lot of failures here in TX since it gets so hot. We have high heat and humidity in TX. He said if I am ok with the inconvenience of having to call them every time an inverter fails then I should be fine with them. Not sure the extra cost but I will find out.

Unless you have shade issues, you might want to heed your installer and avoid the microinverters. I don't believe labor to retrieve and reinstall is covered any longer as part of the Enphase warranty.

[rubdom]

I have the same panels here in PA area. Here was my cost...

40 250W Canadian Solar CS6P
40 Enphase 215 (Cilp at 225W) Micro inverters
Total cost $36,000
$3.60 per watt before incentive and tax credit

- Fed Credt $10,800
- State Grant $7,500
- Utility Company $400
Final cost = $17,300
$1.73 per watt after all incentives

Correct me if I'm wrong but my cost should be higher since I went with the 40 Micro inverters. This was not the cheapest quote but had the best warranty/cost/quality ratio of the companies that quoted me. What ever you do don't just go with the lowest bid. Even if its for the same stuff. Really take the time to look into the companies who are doing the installation. I checked everywhere from the BBB to Angies list and found nothing but praise for the company I choose. I also liked that my installer only did Solar and did their own installations. No outside contractors like most companies do. On top of all that they also had a nice benefit where they carry the cost of the federal, state and utility credit up to 12 months 0% interest until I get the money back to pay them. None of the other guys did that.

Solar Panel Manufacture Warranty 25 years
Microinverter Warranty 25 years
Real Time monitoring 25 years
Astrum Solar Service Warranty 20 years
Yearly production guarantee 20 years
New Roof guarantee (remove and replace panels) 20 years
Moving Guarantee (One move) 20 years remove and install at new location

That is pretty nice guarantee on the move. I haven't seen any company around here that will do that. I wanted to do microinverters but he said he has had a lot of failures here in TX since it gets so hot. We have high heat and humidity in TX. He said if I am ok with the inconvenience of having to call them every time an inverter fails then I should be fine with them. Not sure the extra cost but I will find out.

[silversaver]

I have the same panels here in PA area. Here was my cost...

40 250W Canadian Solar CS6P
40 Enphase 215 (Cilp at 225W) Micro inverters
Total cost $36,000
$3.60 per watt before incentive and tax credit

- Fed Credt $10,800
- State Grant $7,500
- Utility Company $400
Final cost = $17,300
$1.73 per watt after all incentives

Correct me if I'm wrong but my cost should be higher since I went with the 40 Micro inverters. This was not the cheapest quote but had the best warranty/cost/quality ratio of the companies that quoted me. What ever you do don't just go with the lowest bid. Even if its for the same stuff. Really take the time to look into the companies who are doing the installation. I checked everywhere from the BBB to Angies list and found nothing but praise for the company I choose. I also liked that my installer only did Solar and did their own installations. No outside contractors like most companies do. On top of all that they also had a nice benefit where they carry the cost of the federal, state and utility credit up to 12 months 0% interest until I get the money back to pay them. None of the other guys did that.

Solar Panel Manufacture Warranty 25 years
Microinverter Warranty 25 years
Real Time monitoring 25 years
Astrum Solar Service Warranty 20 years
Yearly production guarantee 20 years
New Roof guarantee (remove and replace panels) 20 years
Moving Guarantee (One move) 20 years remove and install at new location

That's great service provided by the solar company. New roof and moving guarantee? BTW, there's a bank does 0% finance for 12 months, but super high rate after the 12 months period, just like 0% introduction rate credit card.

[itnetpro]

I have the same panels here in PA area. Here was my cost...

40 250W Canadian Solar CS6P
40 Enphase 215 (Cilp at 225W) Micro inverters
Total cost $36,000
$3.60 per watt before incentive and tax credit

- Fed Credt $10,800
- State Grant $7,500
- Utility Company $400
Final cost = $17,300
$1.73 per watt after all incentives

Correct me if I'm wrong but my cost should be higher since I went with the 40 Micro inverters. This was not the cheapest quote but had the best warranty/cost/quality ratio of the companies that quoted me. What ever you do don't just go with the lowest bid. Even if its for the same stuff. Really take the time to look into the companies who are doing the installation. I checked everywhere from the BBB to Angies list and found nothing but praise for the company I choose. I also liked that my installer only did Solar and did their own installations. No outside contractors like most companies do. On top of all that they also had a nice benefit where they carry the cost of the federal, state and utility credit up to 12 months 0% interest until I get the money back to pay them. None of the other guys did that.

Solar Panel Manufacture Warranty 25 years
Microinverter Warranty 25 years
Real Time monitoring 25 years
Astrum Solar Service Warranty 20 years
Yearly production guarantee 20 years
New Roof guarantee (remove and replace panels) 20 years
Moving Guarantee (One move) 20 years remove and install at new location

[rubdom]

I'd get w/ my tax advisor and be careful with respect to how the vendor for the Sunpower and Sun Edison seems to be handling the rebates/credits. I know nothing of Texas rebates, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that those rebates reduce the federal tax credit. Until I found out otherwise from someone w/no skin in the game, I'd use the higher #'s.
Also, the Sun Edison system looks to be a fair amount smaller than the other two.
Given your net metering method, I'd look at 12 separate, average months of your utility use and costs before and after adding each system. Using one number for a total year can be a bit misleading in most cases - more so in your case. With your monthly net metering reset, some extra care may be called for to get an optimum size - if any. Doing nothing if it doesn't make financial sense to you is also an option.
Lastly, each of these 3 systems will have different outputs.

Thanks! I believe that you can take the fed 30% before energy company rebate but will pay taxes on the full amount. If you take the 30% after rebate amount you only pay taxes on the price after the energy company rebate but of course it is now a smaller tax incentive. It all really depends what your tax rate is. Company B thinks they can only get 16 panels on my roof based off satellite. This may be the reason for the smaller system with the Edison. They haven't done an on site evaluation yet. Other companies are estimating 22-24.

[J.P.M.]

My tile roof house is 17.5 years old and before I installed my panels, I had a roofer come and take a look at the underlayment to see how much longer it'll hold up. He said it still seems to be in good shape, maybe good for another 5-10 years. I asked him to go ahead and put a new underlayment on anyway, not for the whole roof, but only under where the panels will go on. I took care to have them expand the coverage out all the way to the nearby ridge and rake and bottom edge where it would be too tight to walk around for tile removal later on. So that part of my roof now should last the life of the panels hopefully. Receipt and drawing of coverage fully documented and filed neatly with solar paperwork.

This way I don't have to redo the rest of the roof until I need to.

I did the same. Cheap insurance. No guarantees except from the roofer and a lot of due diligence from the owner.

[J.P.M.]

Company B came back with Sunpower. I was around the same out of pocket costs but for a smaller system. Here are the numbers. I would appreciate any feedback. Also will post the Sun Edison and LG 290 quote (don't have yet).

16 SunPower 327W Solar Modules 1 Monitoring System

1 SMA String Inverter System 1 NEC Compliant Electrical Equipment

1 Racking System 1 Miscellaneous Materials

Cost / Incentives breakdown

Total Cost: $ 21,451.20

Utility Rebate: $ (7,407.21)

Out of Pocket Cost: $ 14,043.99

Federal Tax Credits: $ (6,435.36) Looks like this is being calculated off total. Would be (4,212) if after rebate.

Adjusted Total $ 7,608.63

Breaks down to about $1.45 per Watt or $1.89 depending how you calculate tax savings after incentives. So its about 0.43 per watt higher as company A's Canadian solar quote.


Here is the Sun Edison:

16 Sun Edison 265 Solar Modules 1 Enphase Monitoring System

16 Enphase Micro Inverters 1 NEC Compliant Electrical Equipment

1 Racking System 1 Miscellaneous Materials

Cost / Incentives breakdown

Total Cost: $ 15,476.00

Utility Rebate: $ (5,812.22)

Out of Pocket Cost: $ 9,663.78

Federal Tax Credits: $ (4,642.80) Again this would be $2,898 for after rebate tax incentive

Adjusted Total $ 5,020.98

This one would be $1.18 or $1.59 per Watt after incentives depending on tax calculation.

I'd get w/ my tax advisor and be careful with respect to how the vendor for the Sunpower and Sun Edison seems to be handling the rebates/credits. I know nothing of Texas rebates, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that those rebates reduce the federal tax credit. Until I found out otherwise from someone w/no skin in the game, I'd use the higher #'s.
Also, the Sun Edison system looks to be a fair amount smaller than the other two.
Given your net metering method, I'd look at 12 separate, average months of your utility use and costs before and after adding each system. Using one number for a total year can be a bit misleading in most cases - more so in your case. With your monthly net metering reset, some extra care may be called for to get an optimum size - if any. Doing nothing if it doesn't make financial sense to you is also an option.
Lastly, each of these 3 systems will have different outputs.

[Volusiano]

Unless documented, I'd assume the roof wasn't inspected/serviced when the array went up. All roofs need service at some point - solar topped or not, but especially those with approx. 1 added penetration per panel. When they do, some/most/all of the array will need to be moved/put back - kind of like reinstalling - probably by a roofer with limited knowledge of how to handle solar electric. That extra work will perhaps not be cheap, and I'd be dubious of the care taken. I'm saying that it can be a rather obvious added cost and hassle which may not be a strong selling point and something that more than a few buyer's may think of, and something that if nothing else, potential sellers may want to ponder if only to come up with convincing counterpoints - think like the other guy - that's all.

My tile roof house is 17.5 years old and before I installed my panels, I had a roofer come and take a look at the underlayment to see how much longer it'll hold up. He said it still seems to be in good shape, maybe good for another 5-10 years. I asked him to go ahead and put a new underlayment on anyway, not for the whole roof, but only under where the panels will go on. I took care to have them expand the coverage out all the way to the nearby ridge and rake and bottom edge where it would be too tight to walk around for tile removal later on. So that part of my roof now should last the life of the panels hopefully. Receipt and drawing of coverage fully documented and filed neatly with solar paperwork.

This way I don't have to redo the rest of the roof until I need to.

[rubdom]

Company B came back with Sunpower. I was around the same out of pocket costs but for a smaller system. Here are the numbers. I would appreciate any feedback. Also will post the Sun Edison and LG 290 quote (don't have yet).

16 SunPower 327W Solar Modules 1 Monitoring System

1 SMA String Inverter System 1 NEC Compliant Electrical Equipment

1 Racking System 1 Miscellaneous Materials

Cost / Incentives breakdown

Total Cost: $ 21,451.20

Utility Rebate: $ (7,407.21)

Out of Pocket Cost: $ 14,043.99

Federal Tax Credits: $ (6,435.36) Looks like this is being calculated off total. Would be (4,212) if after rebate.

Adjusted Total $ 7,608.63

Breaks down to about $1.45 per Watt or $1.89 depending how you calculate tax savings after incentives. So its about 0.43 per watt higher as company A's Canadian solar quote.


Here is the Sun Edison:

16 Sun Edison 265 Solar Modules 1 Enphase Monitoring System

16 Enphase Micro Inverters 1 NEC Compliant Electrical Equipment

1 Racking System 1 Miscellaneous Materials

Cost / Incentives breakdown

Total Cost: $ 15,476.00

Utility Rebate: $ (5,812.22)

Out of Pocket Cost: $ 9,663.78

Federal Tax Credits: $ (4,642.80) Again this would be $2,898 for after rebate tax incentive

Adjusted Total $ 5,020.98

This one would be $1.18 or $1.59 per Watt after incentives depending on tax calculation.

[J.P.M.]

Interesting. I never thought of that. When I go to sell my house in 20 years the buyer may see the system as a liability especially if the roof may need to be replaced at some point in the future.

Unless documented, I'd assume the roof wasn't inspected/serviced when the array went up. All roofs need service at some point - solar topped or not, but especially those with approx. 1 added penetration per panel. When they do, some/most/all of the array will need to be moved/put back - kind of like reinstalling - probably by a roofer with limited knowledge of how to handle solar electric. That extra work will perhaps not be cheap, and I'd be dubious of the care taken. I'm saying that it can be a rather obvious added cost and hassle which may not be a strong selling point and something that more than a few buyer's may think of, and something that if nothing else, potential sellers may want to ponder if only to come up with convincing counterpoints - think like the other guy - that's all.

As for lower utility bills - that may be a valid point for some, maybe a lot of home buyers. However, my guess is most people don't buy homes to reduce their utility bills. Since right now solar seems to be the darling of the financially well heeled, I'd suspect utility budgetary constraints are not as big an issue for someone looking at a currently solar equipped home, which right now tends to be bigger and more expensive. I'd also suspect and suggest that those folks with serious budgetary constraints are likely already aware of the financial advantages of conservation over solar and may likely find an existing solar system oversized and thus somewhat inappropriate for their needs, sensibilities or lifestyles. But, opinions vary.

[rubdom]

Second that. FWIW: My observation(s) and (very limited) experience with respect to property values and solar energy:

- Data is limited.
- Seems to make no quantifiable difference in my neighborhood.
- Those making the most noise about solar energy increasing property values seems to be real estate peddlers whose knowledge of solar energy often seems limited, or solar vendors who know squat about real estate.
- In the future, I'm not sure people will consider an "old" solar electric system on a roof as an advantage as much as a liability. If I was looking at property today that had, say, a 10 yr. old system on the roof I might think about how much it would cost to remove it, inspect/repaper the roof and replace it with a probably more efficient, smaller, newer and therefore "better" system. If I did think that way, the existing system would probably be considered a liability rather than a selling point.

Interesting. I never thought of that. When I go to sell my house in 20 years the buyer may see the system as a liability especially if the roof may need to be replaced at some point in the future.

[SunEagle]

Second that. FWIW: My observation(s) and (very limited) experience with respect to property values and solar energy:

- Data is limited.
- Seems to make no quantifiable difference in my neighborhood.
- Those making the most noise about solar energy increasing property values seems to be real estate peddlers whose knowledge of solar energy often seems limited, or solar vendors who know squat about real estate.
- In the future, I'm not sure people will consider an "old" solar electric system on a roof as an advantage as much as a liability. If I was looking at property today that had, say, a 10 yr. old system on the roof I might think about how much it would cost to remove it, inspect/repaper the roof and replace it with a probably more efficient, smaller, newer and therefore "better" system. If I did think that way, the existing system would probably be considered a liability rather than a selling point.

One selling point is to show a potential buyer your electric bill. Sometimes people on a budget like the idea of keeping their utility costs low.

[J.P.M.]

Don't believe what they tell you for property value increase. It is highly location and buyer dependent. In some cases it is $0.

Second that. FWIW: My observation(s) and (very limited) experience with respect to property values and solar energy:

- Data is limited.
- Seems to make no quantifiable difference in my neighborhood.
- Those making the most noise about solar energy increasing property values seems to be real estate peddlers whose knowledge of solar energy often seems limited, or solar vendors who know squat about real estate.
- In the future, I'm not sure people will consider an "old" solar electric system on a roof as an advantage as much as a liability. If I was looking at property today that had, say, a 10 yr. old system on the roof I might think about how much it would cost to remove it, inspect/repaper the roof and replace it with a probably more efficient, smaller, newer and therefore "better" system. If I did think that way, the existing system would probably be considered a liability rather than a selling point.

[rubdom]

Don't believe what they tell you for property value increase. It is highly location and buyer dependent. In some cases it is $0.

I did hear that. I also heard it can actually lower your property value in some areas. I think in San Antonio for the most part it will increase value but im not taking their estimate to heart.