Roof damage during installation

[inetdog]

Damn! I was planning on putting the panels in the basement!

I would be worried about damage to my Spanish tile basement though.

[russ]

Rooftops are great for solar. We have seen some great solar projects on top of roof systems. We see problems when the solar installer did not understand or take into account conditions on the roof. You should use latest solar installation methods to reduce roof damage during installation.

Damn! I was planning on putting the panels in the basement!

[phillipallison]

Reduce roof damage during installation

Rooftops are great for solar. We have seen some great solar projects on top of roof systems. We see problems when the solar installer did not understand or take into account conditions on the roof. You should use latest solar installation methods to reduce roof damage during installation.

[spinyard]

wow look at that damage!

wow look at that damage!

[silversaver]

Super!!!

[bando]

Congrats, looking good!

I agree on the dark blue- we have the Kyocera 245s and they are similar looking and we think they look great on the roof .

[PenguinSolar]

Quick update:

My email to my sales rep and project mgr seemed to work as the crew in the morning before installing the remaining panels ripped out all the ugly glued tiles and placed brand new tiles. Not only did they place the new ones they gave each new tile a fresh coat of paint which made them pretty nice. The only downside is now my old tiles (the house only 6mo old) now look a bit dirty compared to the fresh new ones - ha!

There was only one tile they couldn't replace cause it was on the ridge line and those tiles are actually cemented in so would cause more damage to replace. So they had to glue it but this time the used silicon glue underneath the tile and on the top some see-thru clear gel which looks much more professional than the previous job which looked what you'll get if you had a kindergartener glue something together.

Suffice to say a complete night and day experience. And I will say I'm pretty happy with the end results. I'm sharing some pics below. They are 235 Sharp Panels, have two arrays: one is 8 another is 10.

From the pictures the cells really have this nice deep blue color that popped out after they cleaned and whipped them down (actually had them clean the panels another time but told them to use a glass cleaner this time).

LOVE the deep blue, it so reminds of the oceans of Hawaii and I want to just JUMP IN AND TAKE A DIP! (Pretty sure that'd void my warranty though ).

So in the end happy how it ended although it was a bit nerve racking during the process to make sure they actually do what is expected.

Some take-aways:
- Communication is key!!!
- During the sales/planning completely understand what they will do when they break tiles (is it replace or is it glue)
- Who is responsible for getting the tiles? (Supposedly my installers have various tiles from various suppliers -- although my crew didn't bring any and I ended up getting the tiles on my own from my original builder) Again, this goes in the book that if it really matter to you better be safe then sorry.
- Unfortunately, the person that sold you the system is not the person that is installing the system and don't count that all the communication has been shared. Keep a checklist bullet list of key things you agreed to and review that with the installer on Day 1, that will set expectations and avoid potential headaches
- Check progress regularly, you don't need to camp out on the roof but at major points check-in (are they replacing tiles, are they cleaning the panels -- if they don't clean them guess who'll have to go back up later to clean --- YOU, make sure they use a glass cleaner and not wipe down with their shirt or something)
- Be nice to your crew, I did offer them pizza (Tip: Pizza Hut is running a 50% off deal right now so can get a large for $7, else can do Costco which is $10) but they declined since they were going to be gone at noon anyways. I instead got pizza for my landscape crew (yeah multi-tasking) and still gave the Solar Crew breadsticks that they could eat while running to their next job in the afternoon.

All in all, Sullivan did end up delivering and making good int he end so gotta give them credit for that. Communication could have been better and it's unfortunate that I needed to monitor to make sure things are done right but think that just comes with the territory.

Solar projects are fairly complicated and sophisticated so it's not like walking into a store and buying an iPad. It completely behooves you to stay involved during the process and really understand what's going on and what to expect.

Now for some pixs:

Broken Tiles Removed (these were previously glued ones -- yuck!)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/593wq2ckyk2yu8l/IMG_1535.JPG

New Tile Inserted (They even cleaned it up and makes my 6mo old tiles look OLD now - ha!) - Probably about 12 tiles broken and replaced

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eum31dxbwmipkq1/IMG_1533.JPG

Glamor Shots of the Panels!!! (JUST ***LOVE, LOVE, LOVE*** THE DEEP BLUE! WANT TO DIVE IN!)
10 Panels

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yc7rijk6m7vz08p/Photo%20Jan%2002%2C%2011%2045%2040%20AM.jpg

8 Panels

https://www.dropbox.com/s/60jvjzobyorecyl/Photo%20Jan%2002%2C%2011%2052%2024%20AM.jpg

Now, I'm just waiting to finally see my meter run BACKWARDS!!!

Sorry, this was been building up since I signed back in August.... almost want to cry.... ALMOST .

Reminds me another tip, have patience... they will say it will take 2 months from signing, in reality double and triple that time.

FYI: This is all based on SoCal locale, for your particular area YMMV, but hopefully these tips still help!

[PenguinSolar]

Sheesh, all this talk of broken tiles, footprints and glue make me glad I've got a flat foam roof!

Still at risk for drunken footprints unless you also happen to have a black roof which in that case --- I just HATE you <kidding of course!>

[PenguinSolar]

i don't think there is an installer out there that can guarantee not to break any tiles, but yes you might have variances in how they deal with them. i did ask my project person about it during the proposal stage to verify that broken tiles would be replaced, and he said yes of course. "gluing" was never an option. but again i have the flat concrete ones so it's less complicated than the interlocked S-shaped tiles.

I'm curious if PetersenDean would do any better. After-all they are a ROOFER first, SOLAR second. I've seen recently they have a very competitive package going on. Their Solar4America packages using pure American products with Suniva panels (R&D out of GaTech -- FYI: Great school and I'm not just saying that cause I'm an alum ) and Kaco which I recall has some special pricing to upgrade/replace the inverter post 10 years. Too late for me though.

Been noticing their late night infomercials, you know haven't been sleeping well since been preoccupied with my roof with the solar install lately <grin>.... of course just my luck I come across a SOLAR infomercial!!! Was about to throw the TV out the window.... fortunately it's wall mounted and didn't want to hurt my wall .

[Ian S]

Sheesh, all this talk of broken tiles, footprints and glue make me glad I've got a flat foam roof!

[PenguinSolar]

broken tiles are a given with any solar install. unless the guys weigh 80 lbs, i would expect some to be broken; on the S-shape spanish tiles i would expect 3-4x as many as a flat concrete. we actually had a few other cracked tiles over the years (DirecTV was up there 2-3 times upgrading our dish, and we had a power washer up there after the San Diego fires years ago). we never saw them or gave much thought to them, but there were at least a dozen or so. we have a very large roof so the damage is minimal and really just cosmetic, however the sullivan crew used the extra tiles they had and replaced ALL of our cracked tiles even if it was not them who broke it. they even did a cement corner patch where two roof peaks met and our corner was chipped/missing.

a little bit of kindness goes a long way. i bought lunch for my crew 3 out of the 4 days because they worked their butts off. they were courteous and professional and i appreciated that. i'm not saying you should do the same, but i will say that sometimes kindness goes further than being a hardass!

i don't think there is an installer out there that can guarantee not to break any tiles, but yes you might have variances in how they deal with them. i did ask my project person about it during the proposal stage to verify that broken tiles would be replaced, and he said yes of course. "gluing" was never an option. but again i have the flat concrete ones so it's less complicated than the interlocked S-shaped tiles.

If it only takes a pizza for them to be "kind" to my roof -- sign me up! Think it matters if you get cheese or will only supreme will do the trick?

It is unfortunate that even going with a reputable large solar installer with their own crew (no sub-contracting) there still seems to be a great level of variance, would think they manage their workmanship quality a bit better.

Thanks for the tip! I'll try the pizza tomorrow and let you know how it goes!

Hopefully that will help (plus probably sending an email to the President too ).

So we'll see!

P.S. Happy New Year everyone!!!

[silversaver]

broken tiles are a given with any solar install. unless the guys weigh 80 lbs, i would expect some to be broken; on the S-shape spanish tiles i would expect 3-4x as many as a flat concrete. we actually had a few other cracked tiles over the years (DirecTV was up there 2-3 times upgrading our dish, and we had a power washer up there after the San Diego fires years ago). we never saw them or gave much thought to them, but there were at least a dozen or so. we have a very large roof so the damage is minimal and really just cosmetic, however the sullivan crew used the extra tiles they had and replaced ALL of our cracked tiles even if it was not them who broke it. they even did a cement corner patch where two roof peaks met and our corner was chipped/missing.

a little bit of kindness goes a long way. i bought lunch for my crew 3 out of the 4 days because they worked their butts off. they were courteous and professional and i appreciated that. i'm not saying you should do the same, but i will say that sometimes kindness goes further than being a hardass!

i don't think there is an installer out there that can guarantee not to break any tiles, but yes you might have variances in how they deal with them. i did ask my project person about it during the proposal stage to verify that broken tiles would be replaced, and he said yes of course. "gluing" was never an option. but again i have the flat concrete ones so it's less complicated than the interlocked S-shaped tiles.

Same company but different crew of installers for SD and Orange county. Appearently he and I have the same installer (through pm) so I know how they work because I just got my installation done few weeks ago. Your crew will do the cement corner patch, but our installer say that is too much trouble and "glue" it. Plus, that is with $200 cash tips out front. If "gluing" is never an option, please come to see my roof. Talking is worthless.

We have another forum member at SD area got his solar done, and he is happy. So i guess it is who does the installation......

[bando]

broken tiles are a given with any solar install. unless the guys weigh 80 lbs, i would expect some to be broken; on the S-shape spanish tiles i would expect 3-4x as many as a flat concrete. we actually had a few other cracked tiles over the years (DirecTV was up there 2-3 times upgrading our dish, and we had a power washer up there after the San Diego fires years ago). we never saw them or gave much thought to them, but there were at least a dozen or so. we have a very large roof so the damage is minimal and really just cosmetic, however the sullivan crew used the extra tiles they had and replaced ALL of our cracked tiles even if it was not them who broke it. they even did a cement corner patch where two roof peaks met and our corner was chipped/missing.

a little bit of kindness goes a long way. i bought lunch for my crew 3 out of the 4 days because they worked their butts off. they were courteous and professional and i appreciated that. i'm not saying you should do the same, but i will say that sometimes kindness goes further than being a hardass!

i don't think there is an installer out there that can guarantee not to break any tiles, but yes you might have variances in how they deal with them. i did ask my project person about it during the proposal stage to verify that broken tiles would be replaced, and he said yes of course. "gluing" was never an option. but again i have the flat concrete ones so it's less complicated than the interlocked S-shaped tiles.

[silversaver]

I have gone through the same installer just few weeks ahead of you, so I know exactly what you said in every details. Only thing I can really suggest you is tell them how you want it before you sign off the final paper and tell them now.

Good luck

[PenguinSolar]

I bet it's common practice involving those customers who let the contractor get away with it. Sound like it may be time for some hardball, but I'd get my ducks lined up first..

Can you document that the tiles were not broken before the solar installation began ? What does the contract say ? How much would a roofing contractor charge to do the remediation ? Has it rained and has the roof leaked yet ? BBB ? Local media consumer affairs ? Some of a bunch of things to maybe consider before small claims court or other actions.

I try not to preach, but this is another good example of how the best warranty of a good job is a lot of due diligence by the owner from before the sale until after startup. Pictures before and during as well as after install can be very useful. FWIW, some folks are on the roof, out of the way, for the whole installation process. Caveat Emptor.

In my case, I have pictures of the roof from before, I needed them to submit to the HOA in order for approval, before and after. The pictures (no cracks) were actually done by the Sullivan sales guy so it definitely points the crack damage is done by the crew. To be clear, the crew doesn't deny the cracks are from them, they are just choosing to repair them via gluing.

I'm in SoCal it hardly ever rains so don't know if there's any leaks (yet), that being said when it does don't want a leaky roof either! Again the Spanish tiles are the S-shape tiles which are very popular in SoCal, they are really more for the looks then to protect against the rain (confirmed this with my builder the real protection is underneath the tiles).

At this point I want to minimize the damage, so having them try to replace may risk even further damage (by their crew, maybe a roofing company no problem). The Spanish tiles are S-shaped so they interlock with the surrounding tiles like a puzzle so can imagine it'll be a bitch to even replace even just one.

As long as the glue holds and it's hidden under the panel think I'll just live with those, but the ones that are exposed think they should be replaced although I pray they don't cause more damage in the process.

I'm still mid-project so I can withhold my final payment citing that the work is not yet finished which sounds like I should as this is my most valuable leverage point right now.

I guess what I'm looking for from the community is:

Given my roof type S-shape Concrete Spanish Tiles what should my expectation be:
Should it be:
- Should I expect a dozen or so tiles to be broken (this just happens with solar installs)
- Most will be glued and that's acceptable industry practice, some will be replaced
- Spanish S Tiles are more decorative vs functional, so if they will be covered by the panel as long as they are glued well should just "live with it"
- Any tiles that are not covered by the panels should be replaced unless right on the ridge-line which risk further damage that's not worth it
- Also would any installer be actually better? The only one I could think that would not break ANY tiles would be if I went with my builder (instead of doing this post COE), since they install solar panels first on the roof and then place the tiles down that way you can't break any tiles since there isn't any .
- Rights as a homeowner? I pulled up some of my other bid contracts also from large reputable solar installers, all of them have the technical legalese that it's up to their sole discretion to repair/replace roof damage. They just promise no leaks for 10 years, they DON'T promise no cracked tiles (actually never seen anything from any installer promise no broken tiles)

Ultimately, what I'm getting to is if you're going to do a solar project then should you always expect cracked tiles (this is different than roof damage that causes leaks) this is akin to if you're going to do surgery then you'll get a scar. It just comes with the territory.

I just want to balance what I should expect based on others that have gone through solar installs on similar roof types.

Thanks so much!

Any advice/suggestions much appreciated!