Anyone not happy with their solar?

[Mike90250]

Whenever someone asks me what I paid for my solar system I reply "The cost of a good used car".

That cost is different for every individual and puts solar in perspective. In three years that used car is worth nothing, but my solar system is chugging along.

Ha, a good used car goes for $3k here. I'm sure that's a new Mercedes up on my pole and in the battery shed.

[DanS26]

Whenever someone asks me what I paid for my solar system I reply "The cost of a good used car".

That cost is different for every individual and puts solar in perspective. In three years that used car is worth nothing, but my solar system is chugging along.

[bcroe]

Moonlight

On a full moon night and clear skies my system produces power all night, at times when the moon is at solar south I can even get 10% (6.32 KW system producing 630+ watts.)
You just need a bigger light, in the right wave length.

10% on moonlight, are you real? That I might get in a rainstorm, never at night (I think).
Could go check a full moon on a clear night I suppose. Wondering, if a string of panels
had some "leakage", if it would absorb low level power that might have been useful?
Series diodes would fix that.

Today started partly cloudy, running 20%. Before it ended it was raining, less than 10%
for a total 32 KWH. Bruce Roe

[FUN4ME]

Looking at my logs, I see my production drops on cloudy days and night time.

Maybe you can shine some flood lights on the panels at night to.... oh wait that won't work.

How about aiming some of your neighbors flood lights at your panels.

[maple flats]

On a full moon night and clear skies my system produces power all night, at times when the moon is at solar south I can even get 10% (6.32 KW system producing 630+ watts.)
You just need a bigger light, in the right wave length.

[SunEagle]

Looking at my logs, I see my production drops on cloudy days and night time.

Maybe you can shine some flood lights on the panels at night to.... oh wait that won't work.

[Mike90250]

Looking at my logs, I see my production drops on cloudy days and night time.

[Volusiano]

Beside the obvious reasons not to oversize, the real decision is how much to size, and it depends a lot on what your goal is.

Some people's goal is to not have to pay for any electricity and are willing to pay to size big enough to get to net zero metering (produce all of their demand).

Some people may want to size just big enough to avoid the higher tier rates (if you're on a tier system), where they get the most $ value for their system.

Some people may want to size just big enough to avoid having to pay the higher premium on-peak Time Of Use rate. If you want to stay on a TOU plan after installing solar, you'll also want to orient your panels on the side of the roof that will maximize solar production during the on-peak time (if there are options based on your roof orientations).

If you have shading issues, you'll need to factor it into your size as well, and maybe consider options to address your shading issue (microinverters or optimizers or panel location).

The installer should be able to help you overall with designing the proper sizing as long as you KNOW what your goal is and can articulate it to them along with any budgetary constraint you may have.

[J.P.M.]

Thanks for the replies

Here's some info about us we are already fairly energy conscience.
We live in Hemet our house was built in 2005, and has duel pained glass,and 2 separate AC's one for upstairs and one for downstairs. I have already replaced most of the lights to cfl's and added a whole house fan as well as ceiling fans. The only things that I can think of that aren't energy-efficient are our 2 refrigerators.

We have 2 baby boys that are 8 months old so I see us using more power as they get older.

J.P.M.
You said not to over size our system why is that?

To answer This question my way without someone else answering a question I assume was put to me: Solar economics can be as involved as you want it to be. IMHO, to do it right takes SOME knowledge of financial analysis -Time value of money, life cycle costing, etc., etc. to make informed decisions - as well as some knowledge of how your utility rate is structured. You can make any decision you want, but uninformed decision making is often worse than no decision. Such information may lead to the (IMHO) logical but it seems not so popular opinion that replacing your entire load may not be cost effective - usually, but not always less than 100% offset of your load by solar. What I mean by the most cost effective size system, by one definition (of MANY), is that system size where the levelized incremental cost of the "last" kWhr. of energy provided by the solar electric system equals the levelized incremental cost of the "last" kWhr. of energy you buy from the utility, etc. This levelized cost is figured over the life of the system or time span as you choose, hopefully with reality in mind, using parameters like cost of capital, maint. requirements, value of alternate uses of the assets used to purchase, tax considerations, etc. etc. My experience has been that while solar process economic outlook has improved over the last few years, solar process economics as put forth by such authors as Duffie & Beckman and many others have not. Depending on assumptions about the future, etc., another observation/opinion I carry is that most of the time in SO. CA, about an 80% +/- a bit offset is often the most cost effective system, or at least a good starting point. Once you or me or anyone has OBJECTIVE, LOGICAL HARD NOSE information, an emotional, decision that seems to feel good can always be made, but at least one will walk in with their eyes open. If nothing else you'll be better informed and able to ask embarrassing questions of vendors for which you already have answers.

[Volusiano]

J.P.M. You said not to over size our system why is that?

In the case of net metering with most utility companies, any excess unused solar energy gets rolled over from month to month until the end of the year (doesn't have to be end of calendar year), then it gets sold at wholesale (dirt cheap) back to the utility company and you reset the count and start accruing solar credit all over again the next year. Oversizing means you pay a premium for solar production only to end up selling excess credits back to the power company at dirt cheap rate. It doesn't make economic sense doing that.

[FUN4ME]

Thanks for the replies

Here's some info about us we are already fairly energy conscience.
We live in Hemet our house was built in 2005, and has duel pained glass,and 2 separate AC's one for upstairs and one for downstairs. I have already replaced most of the lights to cfl's and added a whole house fan as well as ceiling fans. The only things that I can think of that aren't energy-efficient are our 2 refrigerators.

We have 2 baby boys that are 8 months old so I see us using more power as they get older.

J.P.M.
You said not to over size our system why is that?

[FletcherSW]

Hi Erich,
I installed a drainback system in 1984 and it has performed superbly. The advantage of drainback is a) it won't ever freeze; b)you never lose any hot water overnight due to cold water in the collector 'falling' down into then hot water tank. Here in Florida, we can have some days with heavy clouds, and I've gone four days with no sun and still had warm water. My drainback system is 120gallon hot water tank, 12gal exchange tank, 2 4x10 solar collectors on the roof. All this for (now) 2 adults.
Good Luck. If I buy another home, I'll put solar in.

I don't expect many replies,as everyone I have spoken to is happy with their systems.

If you are not happy, what is wrong? What did you expect? We're your expectations too high? were you told you would get more power than you do?

If you had the chance to do it again what would you do differently? Would you do it again?

Any and all replies are welcome and wanted.

Thanks Erich

[J.P.M.]

Thanks for the replys everyone.
I am currently getting quotes for solar.
I am just trying too see what I should be on the lookout for.
I will do a search for the bp thread
Thanks again

Do your homework. Decide what you want to accomplish and why before you get quotes. Don't pay too much. In So. CA, depending on your location and where the panels will be, roof, ground etc., non Sunpower systems can be roof mounted on concrete tile for $3.40-$3.75/nameplate Watt +/- a bit. Sunpower about $4.50/nameplate Watt. More than that and you may be leaving money on the table. Oversizing may not be the best course. Reduce your load as much as possible before solar - it's much cheaper and probably more cost effective. Get informed and know the answers to your questions before you ask. Caveat Emptor.

[fuzzelogic]

Maybe the manufacturer allows the installer to charge labor cost for the replacement, so they don't care to have to service the unit multiple times as long as they get reimbursed for the labor cost as well and profit from it.

Yeah, without getting into specifics of what actual fronius payment is to the technician / electrician / installer.

It depends how FAR the person would live from the install site, plus wear and tear on truck / equipment, potential 2 trips 1 to diagnose since tech support usually want you to be on-site and then once to actually replace the inverter. For example, if the system had been installed 2 hours from the installers office if you were a company providing solar installation compared to a homeowner where it's in your backyard Most homeowners could give you the error code off the display IF the display is visible and if they felt it wasn't the installers duty to provide worry free maintenance.

Also, the owner of the system has lost power production and without monitoring the system which some owners do not actively look at the inverter every other week, it could be awhile before this problem is resolved and most likely not until they start to get higher power bills.


So when looking at those factors, it seems like their payment to the installer divided among those aspects would not go very far at all???

[Naptown]

Thanks for the replys everyone.
I am currently getting quotes for solar.
I am just trying too see what I should be on the lookout for.
I will do a search for the bp thread
Thanks again

Dont worry about BP panels They are essentially gone and no longer producing much of anything