Anyone not happy with their solar?

[FUN4ME]

I don't expect many replies,as everyone I have spoken to is happy with their systems.

If you are not happy, what is wrong? What did you expect? We're your expectations too high? were you told you would get more power than you do?

If you had the chance to do it again what would you do differently? Would you do it again?

Any and all replies are welcome and wanted.

Thanks Erich

[yelloguy]

I am not happy with my system. The company's name is Sunrun and I inherited the system with the house I bought. It is a Power Purchase Agreement (PPA) and the rate is pretty close to the utility company's rate and it goes up 1.5% every year (while the utility'c rate has been steady-ish for the last 10 years).

I don't know why the previous owner signed the agreement which was stacked in favor of the solar company from the get-go. But I had no choice except to take over the contract if I wanted to buy the house.

I have already spoken to three neighbors and talked them out of talking to Sunrun. And I have owned the house all of two months. I will be putting up a "No Sunrun" sign on my lawn next

[bando]

i had called sunrun as well when i was seeking bids and the whole experience was terrible. lousy person taking information over the phone, who didn't know anything except how to type some stuff into his computer system. he sets up an online "meeting" for his sales person to call on the phone to go over the proposal over the internet the following week. i wait for the call and nothing happens and then the first guy says oh sorry they are having technical issues at work and have to reschedule. i said well why can't you just email me the information. he said they prefer not to do that. i said ok and hung up and never spoke to them again. idiots.

i just get a very bad feeling with all these "national" leasing companies. it just doesn't sit right with me. we ended up going w/ a local installer and are thrilled with the progress so far. we are on Day 2 of the installation today.

[fuzzelogic]

A couple friends of mine are not very happy with their systems because of constant issues with Fronius IG5100 inverters installed from around 2006 - 2009 timeframe. When you have multiple inverters for a potential system of the same model, it's great when they are working and a real PITA when they are not. They have had to send them back multiple times to be repaired.

They were thinking about replacing with a different model such as SunnyBoy since they have had good success with those inverters

The systems that are mentioned above are the following:
Evergreen module with 2 Fronius 5100 inverters ( replaced multiple times )
Sanyo HIT module with 2 Fronius 5100 inverters (replaced multiple times )
Sanyo HIT module with 1 SunnyBoy 6000 ( original inverter )
Shuco Module with SunnyBoy ( original inverter )

Their system had 2 Fronius inverters and I believe they said they each inverter was #4 meaning each inverter has been replaced 3 times or almost every year since being installed.

Now, some people will probably say there is something else wrong with the system, BUT they have a 2nd system running on their original SunnyBoy inverter installed from the same time frame and the same company who hooked up both systems.

The SunnyBoy is built like a tank compared to the Fronius IG 5100. I'm not sure about the reliability of the other inverters on the market....but it would be good to do your research on the inverter due to lost production time to replace them.

I'm truly surprised more installers have not regretted certain inverters for projects when it requires multiple visits out to the customers site

[Volusiano]

I'm truly surprised more installers have not regretted certain inverters for projects when it requires multiple visits out to the customers site

Maybe the manufacturer allows the installer to charge labor cost for the replacement, so they don't care to have to service the unit multiple times as long as they get reimbursed for the labor cost as well and profit from it.

[Volusiano]

I'm happy with my solar system, but it's only been a little over a month, so time will tell.

I don't know if you have come across the other thread on this forum about the BP panel issue or not. An owner reported power arching of defective panels that caused damage to his roof top.

[FUN4ME]

Thanks for the replys everyone.
I am currently getting quotes for solar.
I am just trying too see what I should be on the lookout for.
I will do a search for the bp thread
Thanks again

[Naptown]

Thanks for the replys everyone.
I am currently getting quotes for solar.
I am just trying too see what I should be on the lookout for.
I will do a search for the bp thread
Thanks again

Dont worry about BP panels They are essentially gone and no longer producing much of anything

[fuzzelogic]

Maybe the manufacturer allows the installer to charge labor cost for the replacement, so they don't care to have to service the unit multiple times as long as they get reimbursed for the labor cost as well and profit from it.

Yeah, without getting into specifics of what actual fronius payment is to the technician / electrician / installer.

It depends how FAR the person would live from the install site, plus wear and tear on truck / equipment, potential 2 trips 1 to diagnose since tech support usually want you to be on-site and then once to actually replace the inverter. For example, if the system had been installed 2 hours from the installers office if you were a company providing solar installation compared to a homeowner where it's in your backyard Most homeowners could give you the error code off the display IF the display is visible and if they felt it wasn't the installers duty to provide worry free maintenance.

Also, the owner of the system has lost power production and without monitoring the system which some owners do not actively look at the inverter every other week, it could be awhile before this problem is resolved and most likely not until they start to get higher power bills.


So when looking at those factors, it seems like their payment to the installer divided among those aspects would not go very far at all???

[J.P.M.]

Thanks for the replys everyone.
I am currently getting quotes for solar.
I am just trying too see what I should be on the lookout for.
I will do a search for the bp thread
Thanks again

Do your homework. Decide what you want to accomplish and why before you get quotes. Don't pay too much. In So. CA, depending on your location and where the panels will be, roof, ground etc., non Sunpower systems can be roof mounted on concrete tile for $3.40-$3.75/nameplate Watt +/- a bit. Sunpower about $4.50/nameplate Watt. More than that and you may be leaving money on the table. Oversizing may not be the best course. Reduce your load as much as possible before solar - it's much cheaper and probably more cost effective. Get informed and know the answers to your questions before you ask. Caveat Emptor.

[FletcherSW]

Hi Erich,
I installed a drainback system in 1984 and it has performed superbly. The advantage of drainback is a) it won't ever freeze; b)you never lose any hot water overnight due to cold water in the collector 'falling' down into then hot water tank. Here in Florida, we can have some days with heavy clouds, and I've gone four days with no sun and still had warm water. My drainback system is 120gallon hot water tank, 12gal exchange tank, 2 4x10 solar collectors on the roof. All this for (now) 2 adults.
Good Luck. If I buy another home, I'll put solar in.

I don't expect many replies,as everyone I have spoken to is happy with their systems.

If you are not happy, what is wrong? What did you expect? We're your expectations too high? were you told you would get more power than you do?

If you had the chance to do it again what would you do differently? Would you do it again?

Any and all replies are welcome and wanted.

Thanks Erich

[FUN4ME]

Thanks for the replies

Here's some info about us we are already fairly energy conscience.
We live in Hemet our house was built in 2005, and has duel pained glass,and 2 separate AC's one for upstairs and one for downstairs. I have already replaced most of the lights to cfl's and added a whole house fan as well as ceiling fans. The only things that I can think of that aren't energy-efficient are our 2 refrigerators.

We have 2 baby boys that are 8 months old so I see us using more power as they get older.

J.P.M.
You said not to over size our system why is that?

[Volusiano]

J.P.M. You said not to over size our system why is that?

In the case of net metering with most utility companies, any excess unused solar energy gets rolled over from month to month until the end of the year (doesn't have to be end of calendar year), then it gets sold at wholesale (dirt cheap) back to the utility company and you reset the count and start accruing solar credit all over again the next year. Oversizing means you pay a premium for solar production only to end up selling excess credits back to the power company at dirt cheap rate. It doesn't make economic sense doing that.

[J.P.M.]

Thanks for the replies

Here's some info about us we are already fairly energy conscience.
We live in Hemet our house was built in 2005, and has duel pained glass,and 2 separate AC's one for upstairs and one for downstairs. I have already replaced most of the lights to cfl's and added a whole house fan as well as ceiling fans. The only things that I can think of that aren't energy-efficient are our 2 refrigerators.

We have 2 baby boys that are 8 months old so I see us using more power as they get older.

J.P.M.
You said not to over size our system why is that?

To answer This question my way without someone else answering a question I assume was put to me: Solar economics can be as involved as you want it to be. IMHO, to do it right takes SOME knowledge of financial analysis -Time value of money, life cycle costing, etc., etc. to make informed decisions - as well as some knowledge of how your utility rate is structured. You can make any decision you want, but uninformed decision making is often worse than no decision. Such information may lead to the (IMHO) logical but it seems not so popular opinion that replacing your entire load may not be cost effective - usually, but not always less than 100% offset of your load by solar. What I mean by the most cost effective size system, by one definition (of MANY), is that system size where the levelized incremental cost of the "last" kWhr. of energy provided by the solar electric system equals the levelized incremental cost of the "last" kWhr. of energy you buy from the utility, etc. This levelized cost is figured over the life of the system or time span as you choose, hopefully with reality in mind, using parameters like cost of capital, maint. requirements, value of alternate uses of the assets used to purchase, tax considerations, etc. etc. My experience has been that while solar process economic outlook has improved over the last few years, solar process economics as put forth by such authors as Duffie & Beckman and many others have not. Depending on assumptions about the future, etc., another observation/opinion I carry is that most of the time in SO. CA, about an 80% +/- a bit offset is often the most cost effective system, or at least a good starting point. Once you or me or anyone has OBJECTIVE, LOGICAL HARD NOSE information, an emotional, decision that seems to feel good can always be made, but at least one will walk in with their eyes open. If nothing else you'll be better informed and able to ask embarrassing questions of vendors for which you already have answers.

[Volusiano]

Beside the obvious reasons not to oversize, the real decision is how much to size, and it depends a lot on what your goal is.

Some people's goal is to not have to pay for any electricity and are willing to pay to size big enough to get to net zero metering (produce all of their demand).

Some people may want to size just big enough to avoid the higher tier rates (if you're on a tier system), where they get the most $ value for their system.

Some people may want to size just big enough to avoid having to pay the higher premium on-peak Time Of Use rate. If you want to stay on a TOU plan after installing solar, you'll also want to orient your panels on the side of the roof that will maximize solar production during the on-peak time (if there are options based on your roof orientations).

If you have shading issues, you'll need to factor it into your size as well, and maybe consider options to address your shading issue (microinverters or optimizers or panel location).

The installer should be able to help you overall with designing the proper sizing as long as you KNOW what your goal is and can articulate it to them along with any budgetary constraint you may have.