Best SunPower Panel Price in NorCal

[J.P.M.]

Can you tell me which sunpower installer this is? Was the $4 range before incentives? So far, I've had ProVoltz, Clean Solar, Freedom Solar, and this other company give me quotations. Clean Solar is the best so far. The $ DC/Watt for my 3k KW system is about $3.70 /DC Watt AFTER incentives.

If you are set on Sunpower, I'd suggest combing the CSI database to see where the low prices are and where you need to be pricewise before you pull the trigger. 335's and 345's appear to be at a premium on top of S.P's already high price, but, looking in the database for the 12/11 rendition, it looks like 335's or 345's Watt can be had for around $4.75-$5.00/D.C. Watt. 327's are probably still around for about $4.50/D.C. Watt if you snoop around some. All prices before incentives. Other good, non S.P. stuff can be had for $3.40-$3.60 +/- some.

[advan24r]

If you are set on Sunpower, I'd suggest combing the CSI database to see where the low prices are and where you need to be pricewise before you pull the trigger. 335's and 345's appear to be at a premium on top of S.P's already high price, but, looking in the database for the 12/11 rendition, it looks like 335's or 345's Watt can be had for around $4.75-$5.00/D.C. Watt. 327's are probably still around for about $4.50/D.C. Watt if you snoop around some. All prices before incentives. Other good, non S.P. stuff can be had for $3.40-$3.60 +/- some.

Well, so from the looks of it...w/the system that I am looking at using 335 or 345 for a 3.105 or 3.350 system...getting it at $5.50-$5.60 range BEFORE incentives seem to be PRETTY GOOD. Because from the looks of similar systems in that power range (NAMEPLATE) and w/exact sunpower modules, people are getting it in the $6+ range.

[wellfused]

I saw some quotes about sunpower system and found they are in general higher than other systems. No surprise since they are one of the best panels in the world and I heard their factory is in full production capacity and have to expand capacity to fill the back orders. The higher cost spent on Sunpower system will be returned by better reliability over 25 years or longer because they are using N type silicon wafers that have much less/almost no light induced degrading. Another reason is their high efficiency and space saving capability, usually high efficiency cells are made by higher cost too, I believe Sunpower's cell efficiency is ranked No.1 or No.2 around the world.
Its close competitor is Sanyo (Panasonic), which is using heterojunction technology (amorphouse silicon on crystalline silicon wafer). Please notice, Sanyo is also using N type silicon wafers and so it also has much less/almost no LID degrading. But Panasonic/Sanyo systems most likely cost more than Sunpower even they have a factory in US. The following competitors should be Suniva and Yingli's Panda-II product (not other type of panels). Again, Yingli's Panda-II is high efficiency (20% cell) and N type silicon wafers, and I heard they supply most of that product to Japan market. Suniva's cell efficiency is close to 20% and they are planning to develop N type cells too (just planning, not roll out yet).
A couple of US startups (in California bay area) are manufacturing solar panels using the Sanyo-like technology: N type silicon wafers, heterojunction technology, 20-21% cell efficiency. The cell quality is much better than P type multicrystalline cells but they lack an established brand and have to rely on bankruptcy insurance to help increase customers' confidence on 25 years warranty. One quote that I got 6 months ago is about $3.5/w for 3kw system installation through their recommended installer. I thought that price could be lower to $2.75 if I can buy the panels from them and hire an licensed electrician to do the work for me. But several questions remained for me: can they sell panels to individuals? (I figured out a way to get it), how much other components like cables/combiner box/conduits/arrays cost? how much permit cost and how to claim incentives for system price (can I combine all componets' cost and labor cost for claiming incentives?）. Can anyone help answer the questions? I may just go to buy system/installation directly from them, but want to figure it out anyway.

[J.P.M.]

Well, so from the looks of it...w/the system that I am looking at using 335 or 345 for a 3.105 or 3.350 system...getting it at $5.50-$5.60 range BEFORE incentives seem to be PRETTY GOOD. Because from the looks of similar systems in that power range (NAMEPLATE) and w/exact sunpower modules, people are getting it in the $6+ range.

$5.50-$6.00 Watt range may look good until you consider that pretty near the same annual output can be likely be achieved for about $2.00/Watt less ( about $1.40-$1.65/Watt less after increntives). To be clear - Sunpower's touted efficiency is an area effenciency, Watts per square area. One D.C. kW of Sunpower panels will probably deliver about the same amount, maybe just a bit more of electricity than one D.C. kW of other reputable panel under the same conditions. The Sunpowers will just do it in a smaller area. If you're space constrained, try conservation to lower the demand and reduce system size. That works and costs less. As for warranty, folks talk about the future as if it's already been written. Some caution and common sense is good, to be sure, but Sunpower, while they're a very good product, has no lock on an assured future - no more than anyone else.

[Volusiano]

$5.50-$6.00 Watt range may look good until you consider that pretty near the same annual output can be likely be achieved for about $2.00/Watt less ( about $1.40-$1.65/Watt less after increntives). To be clear - Sunpower's touted efficiency is an area effenciency, Watts per square area. One D.C. kW of Sunpower panels will probably deliver about the same amount, maybe just a bit more of electricity than one D.C. kW of other reputable panel under the same conditions. The Sunpowers will just do it in a smaller area. If you're space constrained, try conservation to lower the demand and reduce system size. That works and costs less. As for warranty, folks talk about the future as if it's already been written. Some caution and common sense is good, to be sure, but Sunpower, while they're a very good product, has no lock on an assured future - no more than anyone else.

Very good points here. I gotta admit I'm surprised to see so many threads on this forum about "Best SunPower panel pricing". I wonder how many of the people who are interesting in SunPower really have an issue with roof space that need SunPower, or whether they just want SunPower because it seems like everybody else wants it.

[wellfused]

Agree that the space saving benifit may not mean much to many consumers. Also the warranty part. Most of brands should have similar reliability as Sunpower since they are probably outsourcing panel making for at least some of their products. Panel making is already pretty mature and no much unique technologies from different makers, difference is only quality control and brands.

$5.50-$6.00 Watt range may look good until you consider that pretty near the same annual output can be likely be achieved for about $2.00/Watt less ( about $1.40-$1.65/Watt less after increntives). To be clear - Sunpower's touted efficiency is an area effenciency, Watts per square area. One D.C. kW of Sunpower panels will probably deliver about the same amount, maybe just a bit more of electricity than one D.C. kW of other reputable panel under the same conditions. The Sunpowers will just do it in a smaller area. If you're space constrained, try conservation to lower the demand and reduce system size. That works and costs less. As for warranty, folks talk about the future as if it's already been written. Some caution and common sense is good, to be sure, but Sunpower, while they're a very good product, has no lock on an assured future - no more than anyone else.

[bigroccrek]

My quote for Sunpower in Southern CA

I too am looking at a Sunpower system. I have received two quotes one was too ridiculous to even discuss. The other is from a local installer who has installed three systems for co-workers and they are extremely satisfied with both the equipment and the installer. I originally wanted the 345 panels but I got the same response......6 month waiting period, same for the 335 panels I called the Sunpower factory as they have a deal with my company (which gave me access to an inside number) and confirmed the backlog, so it's real which should tell you something about the desire to buy Sunpower panels! I have opted for the 327 panels. They are only 6.3% less efficient than the 345s and they carry the same warranty. I have a 1500 sq ft shop that is free and clear of shade so the number of panels really isn't an issue. The system I am zeroing in on is a Sunpower 327 panel system putting out 7848 DC Watts (6937.63 CEC Rating). The per DC Watt cost is $5.16 BEFORE tax credit and $3.61 AFTER tax credit, not including teh $1750 rebate I get from my company!! Keep in mind Southern California Edison is out of $$$ so no rebate there. I will apply anyway just in case they get more $$$$. Also, the system I am putting in includes two 5000 kW Sunpower Inverters so I can expand if I want to later so consider that I am buying and installing 2 inverters when looking at the per watt cost. I have done a lot of research as well as having the benefit of 3 co-workers who similarly researched it to death (we're all engineers!) and we all came to the same conclusion..........You get what you pay for and the Sunpower systems are very highly regarded and their warranty is the best I have come across. Just some things to consider and some more information...........

[Volusiano]

I too am looking at a Sunpower system. ... I have a 1500 sq ft shop that is free and clear of shade so the number of panels really isn't an issue. ... I have done a lot of research as well as having the benefit of 3 co-workers who similarly researched it to death (we're all engineers!) and we all came to the same conclusion..........You get what you pay for and the Sunpower systems are very highly regarded and their warranty is the best I have come across.

This is a prime example somebody who doesn't need the space efficiency of Sunpower but still wants to pay a premium for it anyway just because it's highly regarded and everybody else he knows wants it.

[silversaver]

I too am looking at a Sunpower system. I have received two quotes one was too ridiculous to even discuss. The other is from a local installer who has installed three systems for co-workers and they are extremely satisfied with both the equipment and the installer. I originally wanted the 345 panels but I got the same response......6 month waiting period, same for the 335 panels I called the Sunpower factory as they have a deal with my company (which gave me access to an inside number) and confirmed the backlog, so it's real which should tell you something about the desire to buy Sunpower panels! I have opted for the 327 panels. They are only 6.3% less efficient than the 345s and they carry the same warranty. I have a 1500 sq ft shop that is free and clear of shade so the number of panels really isn't an issue. The system I am zeroing in on is a Sunpower 327 panel system putting out 7848 DC Watts (6937.63 CEC Rating). The per DC Watt cost is $5.16 BEFORE tax credit and $3.61 AFTER tax credit, not including teh $1750 rebate I get from my company!! Keep in mind Southern California Edison is out of $$$ so no rebate there. I will apply anyway just in case they get more $$$$. Also, the system I am putting in includes two 5000 kW Sunpower Inverters so I can expand if I want to later so consider that I am buying and installing 2 inverters when looking at the per watt cost. I have done a lot of research as well as having the benefit of 3 co-workers who similarly researched it to death (we're all engineers!) and we all came to the same conclusion..........You get what you pay for and the Sunpower systems are very highly regarded and their warranty is the best I have come across. Just some things to consider and some more information...........

That's a real good deal. You should sign the deal and never look back.

[bigroccrek]

Why do you hate on Sunpower??

This is a prime example somebody who doesn't need the space efficiency of Sunpower but still wants to pay a premium for it anyway just because it's highly regarded and everybody else he knows wants it.

Volusiano, I think you jump to conclusions. I WANT the sunpower system because it is a high quality system, has the best warranty I have found and as a side benefit it looks good. I didn't say I wanted it because "everybody else he knows wants it", I merely pointed out that I have other references as to the quality, workmanship, and the installers reputation. I had quotes for other manufacturers systems and yes they were cheaper......but not that much cheaper and their warranty was not anywhere close to Sunpower. Why do you hate on Sunpower? Why is everyone who does their research, does comparisons and then chooses Sunpower wrong??? Oh and as you yourself pointed out Sunpower is "highly regarded".http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/images/icons/icon7.png

[russ]

Nobody is saying they hate Sunpower - we are saying that unless one has space limitations and requires the higher efficiency they will be paying a premium for the same thing others sell.

[bigroccrek]

Nobody is saying they hate Sunpower - we are saying that unless one has space limitations and requires the higher efficiency they will be paying a premium for the same thing others sell.

I understand what your saying, however at least in my area the quotes I have received for Sunpower systems are not that much more expensive than the others (maybe 10%)? So what it comes down to is quality, warranty, and the installer. and so far the Sunpower system seems to be the answer, at least for me. This system will be here until I sell the house in maybe 10 years. Based on all of my analysis (Engineer......) the Sunpower system will provide for all of my electrical needs and will be with 5% - 7% of what I pay SCE per month, on average (assuming no SCE price increases which seems highly unlikely) and by paying just a little more each month in seven years It will be paid for and I will be free of Edison, kind of................

[bando]

I understand what your saying, however at least in my area the quotes I have received for Sunpower systems are not that much more expensive than the others (maybe 10%)? So what it comes down to is quality, warranty, and the installer. and so far the Sunpower system seems to be the answer, at least for me. This system will be here until I sell the house in maybe 10 years. Based on all of my analysis (Engineer......) the Sunpower system will provide for all of my electrical needs and will be with 5% - 7% of what I pay SCE per month, on average (assuming no SCE price increases which seems highly unlikely) and by paying just a little more each month in seven years It will be paid for and I will be free of Edison, kind of................

yeah if it's only 10% then i might make the same choice. when i got quotes , SP was more than a 30-40% premium over other panels. i have no space limitations however we mounted 36 panels on one roof orientation and 12 over another, for 48 total. we asked to get SP quotes b/c then we could just have one array of 36 to keep things neat and clean, which is silly personal aesthetic preference i have. however, when the quotes came back THAT much more, we just couldn't justify it.

i do agree SP looks "better" too (they are really very black), but honestly we've had ours mounted for a month now and i don't even look at them anymore. and we have a single story house. now my PV system is just a workhorse. i checkup on production every night just for the hell of it and to learn the diff in production on sunny vs partially cloudy days, but i never really look at the panels anymore. i imagine in another few weeks i'll only be checking on production a few times a week.

so to each his own. i wanted to get a good $/Watt and going with SP just wasn't going to do that. but again, if you are saying it's only 10% diff, then that's great. but that could mean your non-SP quotes are WAYYY inflated and you need to get them down on price. because the norm here seems to be at least a 30% price premium for name alone (comparing watt for watt).

i'm not saying price is everything, and in fact we didn't take the lowest possible $/watt bid we had. we took the second highest b/c the vibe w/ the installer and project manager just felt right and i think they have a great reputation. we are 100% satisfied with the job. so there are many other factors other than just the panels.

[wellfused]

What kind of difference on warranty please?

QUOTE=bigroccrek;94280]Volusiano, I think you jump to conclusions. I WANT the sunpower system because it is a high quality system, has the best warranty I have found and as a side benefit it looks good. I didn't say I wanted it because "everybody else he knows wants it", I merely pointed out that I have other references as to the quality, workmanship, and the installers reputation. I had quotes for other manufacturers systems and yes they were cheaper......but not that much cheaper and their warranty was not anywhere close to Sunpower. Why do you hate on Sunpower? Why is everyone who does their research, does comparisons and then chooses Sunpower wrong??? Oh and as you yourself pointed out Sunpower is "highly regarded".http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/images/icons/icon7.png[/QUOTE]

[Volusiano]

My understanding is that SunPower offers a combined product and production warranty of 25 years. Other manufacturers usually offer 10 years product warranty and 25 years production warranty. So Sunpower does seem to offer the best warranty out there.

If Sunpower is only 10% more than other panels in general, then of course it would be more justifiable. But generally that's not the case and Sunpower quotes usually is a lot more than 10%. It's 10% for bigroccrek because maybe his other quotes are still not low enough? I'm sure it varies based on individual and maybe locality too. But I think if it's universally only 10% more across the board, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Volusiano, I think you jump to conclusions. I WANT the sunpower system because it is a high quality system, has the best warranty I have found and as a side benefit it looks good. I didn't say I wanted it because "everybody else he knows wants it", I merely pointed out that I have other references as to the quality, workmanship, and the installers reputation.

Best warranty is nice, but not nice enough for that much price difference. Not when most brand name panels are already pretty reliable anyway.

Quality and workmanship, yes, but that's not exclusive only to Sunpower and not other brands.

Better look -> subjective.

Installer reputation -> how is this even relevant to the discussion? Does Sunpower guarantee that the installer is reputable and will be in business forever?

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Sunpower. I just found it weird that so many people want it and are willing to pay a big price premium for it even though they don't have any issue with roof space at all (assuming that the price premium is a lot more than 10% for the most part).