One last look before we sign for Sunpower system

[frizzlefry]

Just started looking into getting Solar. What are the difference between the black and white panels other then color. Does the white panels have a better aesthetic look?
Thanks

It's aesthetics and slight reduction in power output. We have a low pitch roof (3:12 run) and you can't see it from the street so don't really care about aesthetics. Our roof where it will be installed is also higher than the other houses in the area. With 3% more power output over the lifetime of the panels, the fact that we're staying in this house indefinitely (wife's dream kitchen and we just finished building it 2.5yrs ago), it's only a 2month delay (I hope), and a small price difference ($200), after reviewing the numbers, it's not worth it for us to go with the 335s. So... now we wait.

[takeastep]

Just started looking into getting Solar. What are the difference between the black and white panels other then color. Does the white panels have a better aesthetic look?
Thanks

Thanks Again!

Rep got back to me a few days ago and stated the same thing. White X21's will not be in until October. We re-visited the contract and changed to X21's Black 335. They are in stock and ready for install. Looks like the wife and I need to pick a date soon

Here is the details of the re-negotiation:

Total system cost $35,456.00
CSI rebate about $1450.00
Fed tax credit $10,201.80
NET Cost $23,804.20

NEW Watts: 335x24 panels = 8040 VS
OLD Watts: 345x24 panels = 8280

Which works out at the same price per watt @$4.41 per watt & no new permits needed. They did give the option of adding a panel, for the total wattage difference, but I can live with 240 less watts..

[PenguinSolar]

Thanks!

Actually, my $/watt is based on the CEC-AC rating where I think most people report the DC rating. So for SP it's around $5.40/watt for AC and since I'm sizing so small 4KW expect less discount but will definitely PM to compare notes . However that still won't solve the backlog so you'd miss the summer peak harvest window.

What I found from comparing about 12 quotes so far the $/KW-DC can tell you quickly how "good" a deal is. When it gets real close then can calc the CEC-AC KW number to get a more realistic power generation and if you're going after the CSI/SCE rebate this is what it's based on.

Gets more complicated if the installer takes the CSI rebate and fronts you or you get it directly from the utility. So in general just go by gross to find the best price.

I'm leaning toward Canadian Solar w/ Enphase or if I want US maybe Suniva with all their plants in the US. Even US brand panels manufacturer outside US. SP has a huge factory in Philipines for instance.

Again thanks for the info!

I had to move away from solarcity due to what I consider unnecessary re-roofing needs. I found a local SP dealer with really aggressive pricing at under $5watt. I wonder if you have chatted with them yet. I am in OC as well. Not enough posts for PM but feel free to contact me via e,ail. Tysonlee(eight eight_one)@mac_dot------com

Severum

[Severum88]

I had to move away from solarcity due to what I consider unnecessary re-roofing needs. I found a local SP dealer with really aggressive pricing at under $5watt. I wonder if you have chatted with them yet. I am in OC as well. Not enough posts for PM but feel free to contact me via e,ail. Tysonlee(eight eight_one)@mac_dot------com

Severum

What's your thoughts with RCC, specifically their installation method?

Talking to them, their installation is pretty unique and very different than any other installer I've talked to.

They install the solar panels so they are flush with the tile roof. What they do is remove ALL the tiles from the face of the roof, lay down 30 years composite shingles, mount the panels and then build the tiles around the panels. This gives a look where the panels are EMBEDDED into the roof with the top of the panels flush with the tiles. Attaching a pic they sent me to show you what I'm talking about.

They say cause they lay down new composite shingles underneath it makes it water tight with no leak plus aesthetically looks better if you don't want panels sticking out.

Got a couple concerns.
1) Seems overkill as you're removing more tiles than needed, prone for more damage. For me it's a 3mo old roof so not looking to tear it up just yet.
2) Since the panels are closer to the roof, worried about air circulation, thought you want as much clearance below the panels to help keep it cool.

Wondering how common this installation method is and if it's really "better" since it does cost more to do it this way.

Thanks!

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[silversaver]

I have to agree with you because I have the same concern. I really like their presentation, but the roof job will cost additional $3k to $4k on top of the solar system. They won't do the solar without the roof job...

Are you still after Sunpower system? I gave up on Sunpower system. I think I'll choose between LG or Solarworld panels with Enphase M215.

[PenguinSolar]

Those that have asked,
One of the two that quoted was RCC Solar.

What's your thoughts with RCC, specifically their installation method?

Talking to them, their installation is pretty unique and very different than any other installer I've talked to.

They install the solar panels so they are flush with the tile roof. What they do is remove ALL the tiles from the face of the roof, lay down 30 years composite shingles, mount the panels and then build the tiles around the panels. This gives a look where the panels are EMBEDDED into the roof with the top of the panels flush with the tiles. Attaching a pic they sent me to show you what I'm talking about.

They say cause they lay down new composite shingles underneath it makes it water tight with no leak plus aesthetically looks better if you don't want panels sticking out.

Got a couple concerns.
1) Seems overkill as you're removing more tiles than needed, prone for more damage. For me it's a 3mo old roof so not looking to tear it up just yet.
2) Since the panels are closer to the roof, worried about air circulation, thought you want as much clearance below the panels to help keep it cool.

Wondering how common this installation method is and if it's really "better" since it does cost more to do it this way.

Thanks!

Slide26.jpeg

[PenguinSolar]

Nothing fancy, concrete Spanish tiles. It's a brand new house so has the proper electic panels needed.

Am suspecting an OC premium maybe going on! . Only thing in that price range I can find is using Canadian Solar.

Canadian Solar it'll be more panels but can't justify 6.10/watt vs 4.23/watt plus the backlog wait for SP.

Already gotten 12 bids so seeing from 4.23 to 7.31 per KW-AC for my area with the best on SP at $6. Even at $6 too high.

May just go tier 1 Chinese and just have a "smack down" between the installers to see who wants my biz more. Maybe I'll have them all show up at the same time for a final bid, grab some popcorn and watch the bloodshed .

Talked to SC and since my house has no satellite image (too new) they need to send out engineers. But before that they want me to sign a contract which gives me 14 days to cancel after I get the engineer report. WTF!? It's a purchase contact they want me to sign.

Really turned off by that, as no one else is requiring that and given their earnings miss would seem to me that they need my business more than I need them.

Oh well, also they aren't the lowest but do think they'll match. Only advantage of purchasing from them is free monitoring an their own performance guarantee. They said even under purchase they offer a performance guarantee with pay but looking at the numbers it's lower than the performance guarantee levels of the actual panel manufacturer that doubt it would ever pay out.

Congrats on your new panels!

We switched our deal to the 335B SP due to backorder. They will be in the warehouse within 8 days Rep adjusted price to the same price point of $4.41 a watt.
Found out that they did have to get a correction with permitting for the wattage difference

What type of roof are you installing on? Is there HOA hoops? Is it/might be a difficult install?!? It does sound like your getting high quotes. Orange County Premium?

I have a HUGE roof with over 6000 sq ft of roof space to place pannels. But the wife wants them hidden (To match all the other installs on our block, WTx). Which means SP for the least amount of pannels placed. If I could just load the roof up, Id go with Canadian or Trina for the $ per watt. But the 8 panel difference for the same output was just too many panels to place.. Strange that there is a $$big SP premium for less panels

[Ionizer]

Wondering if this is because of the system size, I'm shopping for half the size (4KW) and lowest for SP I'm seeing is around $6.10/KW-AC in SoCal/OC area, even when I talk to the same installers above . Different reps though.

Other issue is the 327w and 345w SP are all back-ordered for four months.

I'm in OC so chasing the final step of the CSI/SCE rebate which is looking to run out of money by the end of the year so can't really wait.

Got to keep shopping .

We switched our deal to the 335B SP due to backorder. They will be in the warehouse within 8 days Rep adjusted price to the same price point of $4.41 a watt.
Found out that they did have to get a correction with permitting for the wattage difference

What type of roof are you installing on? Is there HOA hoops? Is it/might be a difficult install?!? It does sound like your getting high quotes. Orange County Premium?

I have a HUGE roof with over 6000 sq ft of roof space to place pannels. But the wife wants them hidden (To match all the other installs on our block, WTx). Which means SP for the least amount of pannels placed. If I could just load the roof up, Id go with Canadian or Trina for the $ per watt. But the 8 panel difference for the same output was just too many panels to place.. Strange that there is a $$big SP premium for less panels

[PenguinSolar]

Gross cost at $4.41 a watt in California for SunPower? That's ridiculously low priced. Seems some installers really are cutting price to get business in the door.

Wondering if this is because of the system size, I'm shopping for half the size (4KW) and lowest for SP I'm seeing is around $6.10/KW-AC in SoCal/OC area, even when I talk to the same installers above . Different reps though.

Other issue is the 327w and 345w SP are all back-ordered for four months.

I'm in OC so chasing the final step of the CSI/SCE rebate which is looking to run out of money by the end of the year so can't really wait.

Got to keep shopping .

[silversaver]

What ever it takes to make the deal... is the key.

If you want your incentive out front, they will put you in a loan for 0% 12 months so they claim the money for you. The rate is 2.9%, but installer will take care the interest for you. Usually the homeowner apply the incentive with installer's help. But, if you don't want to wait that long then apply the loan and installer cover the interest for you.

[PenguinSolar]

I've heard different things from different installers. Sometimes the dealer will just give you the "instant rebate" and they would collect the rebate later, others you get the rebate direct from the utility.

Did they say how exactly you'd get the rebate? And when?

Per csi calculator: $1452.00. Looks like my rep may owe me $2.00

Not sure how it's going to work. The previous system specs was processed and state that California has already reserved $1489.00 for the project. Now that our system is smaller, I assume they will change the csi rebate by having to do reprocessing? Or washout at the end/sign off?

[Ionizer]

You can use the CSI Calculators to give you a more accurate idea of the CSI rebate. Finding most installers are estimating on the high side with all ideal conditions.

Also the calculator can give you the CEC-AC KW Rating which finding more accurate than just using the nameplate sizing, as the CEC-AC KW also factors in the efficiency of the inverters plus the panels (PTC). This is what really drives the rebate plus some sort of "design factor" based on where exactly the system is installed.

Per csi calculator: $1452.00. Looks like my rep may owe me $2.00

Not sure how it's going to work. The previous system specs was processed and state that California has already reserved $1489.00 for the project. Now that our system is smaller, I assume they will change the csi rebate by having to do reprocessing? Or washout at the end/sign off?

[PenguinSolar]

CSI Rebate = $1450 Estimate (probally a little high)

You can use the CSI Calculators to give you a more accurate idea of the CSI rebate. Finding most installers are estimating on the high side with all ideal conditions.

Also the calculator can give you the CEC-AC KW Rating which finding more accurate than just using the nameplate sizing, as the CEC-AC KW also factors in the efficiency of the inverters plus the panels (PTC). This is what really drives the rebate plus some sort of "design factor" based on where exactly the system is installed.

[PenguinSolar]

Thanks Again!

Total system cost $35,456.00
CSI rebate about $1450.00
Fed tax credit $10,201.80
NET Cost $23,804.20

So the Fed Credit is 30% of the price AFTER rebate. Weird the SMax rep I'm working with keeps quoting the 30% based on the GROSS amount. Maybe trying to make the numbers look better?

But it's not only SMax, got other installers who are doing the same thing so bit confused. Of course this factors into the final cost which way you calc it.

Thanks!

[Ionizer]

Huh surprised about SolarMax. The reps we got pushed on using the SMX230 panels with emphase micro-inverters. I can't find much info on those panels so decided to keep looking.

Guess they are pretty aggressive wih their SunPower pricing (never thought to look, as think I can get a faster ROI with doing something else like a Solarword, REC, Yingling or LG).

For OC area, looking at the CSI database I only saw them do one installation which was riverside so that also give me pause.

Keep us updated on the progress, may have to see what their quote is for SP now .

Did any if your friends that went with SMax use the SMX panels or is it all SunPower?

Thanks!

One with a lease and one with the financing they do in house.
The lease was a sunpower lease and the other was a SMX system.. I donot know alot of the private details, just that both were satisfied and were installed within the past 2 years.