One last look before we sign for Sunpower system

[Noob]

You're assuming that your electricity never goes up and it will cost you $1600 each year. Furthermore, your 5% or $1050 is taxed as ordinary income at your marginal tax rate. So state plus federal will take at minimum 35% of that. What you have left is around $700 to cover your bills. You'd need another $1380 gross pay, or $900 after tax dollars to cover the rest of the utility bill each year. Finally, as you take $1600 out each year, you'd find that your 5% earnings is less and less.

However, I do agree that 13 year payback is a little extreme. He chose Sunpower that means that brand name, quality of warranty, etc. plays into his purchase decision. It's the difference between someone buying a Luxury car over a regular car. If it gives him the extra satisfaction, then you can't put a price on that. For me, my payback period is 6 years take or give a year. That is the reason I chose to purchase over going PPA (which makes sense to me as well, save now versus save later).

I know, as I implied I had done a little spreadsheet with the 1600 drawn down every year, resulting in dwindling interest each year. And I thought 5% was conservative enough over the long term to accommodate the other factors you mention. As I said, it was close to a wash, but a lot more predictable the way he did it, and apparently a good use of his money.

But my electric bill is twice his, and my available funds much less, so I couldn't go that way. Not yet sure whether or not solar PV is doable for me.

[Naptown]

Unfortunately it is against Florida law for someone to pay the cost to install a pv system on another person's home or anything concerning a leasing arrangement. Stupid law but the only option I have is to purchase it outright. I don't plan on staying at this house more than a few more years so I would never get anything close to a payback even the price of my home would not appreciate the amount of what I put into a pv system. Sucks for me.

He is in NY so a completely different scenario.

[craeay]

I had 5 companies bid the project. I specified the new X21 series panel. Negligible price increase compared to E20. Suprising tidbit about the E20, no more black backing for future production.

Location Southern CA (Orange County)
Utility = SCE

(24) Sunpower X21-345 Panels - 3 strings of 8 panels
(1) SMA 8000US inverter
System Cost = $37,100
CSI Rebate = $1474
Out of Pocket = $35,626
Tax Credit = $10,687.80
Incentive = $500 rebate after install complete
Net Cost = $24,438.20

DC STC Rating = 8280 kW
DC PTC Rating = 7685 kW
CEC-AC Rating = 7377 kW
CSI Rating = 7376 kW
First yr production = 12,785 kWh
Current annual usage = 14,200 kWh

Gross Cost/kW DC = $4.48
Net Cost/kW DC = $ 2.95

This is an all cash purchase. No financing. Just curious if any one has any comments or if I'm missing something here. 10% less than the next closest bid.

I just gave Sullivan's a call... they asked me if there's a name of an individual or at a minimum the person's address that they use to reference... do they give referral credit? You can get credit for referring me!

[frizzlefry]

I just gave Sullivan's a call... they asked me if there's a name of an individual or at a minimum the person's address that they use to reference... do they give referral credit? You can get credit for referring me!

Sent you a PM

[bobfromnj]

Help with a Anniversary year

Cost avoidance or income? Same thing. You're saving those hard earned post-tax dollars to spend on other stuff besides your electric bill. Ideally you'd be investing those dollars you are saving but so far we've been spending them to be honest. It's like the idiots that take out loans from their 401k only to have to re-pay the loan with interest and using post-tax dollars when it was originally contributed with pre-tax dollars. You don't get a tax deduction for putting the money back in after taking out a loan. Being double taxed in a way. But that's another story.

I guess I'm from the same school of thought like Bob. I've had my system since June last year. You are right, my bills are not $0. They are $2.20 (the customer fee), but that's basically zero eh?. Then, at the end of my anniversary year which I set to March, any banked kwh credits I have (over-production from the year) are credited to me at the wholesale rate which I think is $0.05/kwh or so. If there are 1,000 kwh banked, that's a $50 cash credit to our electric bill that more than takes care of the $2.20/mo customer fee for the rest of the year and then the bill is truly zero. Then next year the process repeats itself. My system has overproduced each month by 100-150 kwh from the estimates I was given so I'm confident that there will be over-production. Although, we have young kids who soon will suck up that excess I'm sure, lol

Lomag,
Wonder if you could help me with a "New Jersey" question? I sent you a PM. Thanks.
Bob

[Ionizer]

Help

Sent you a PM

I called too and they need a name or address for a referral. In SO CAL too and that seems like a great deal prepared to quotes Ive been getting.

[go2ucla]

Need help with Solar

I had 5 companies bid the project. I specified the new X21 series panel. Negligible price increase compared to E20. Suprising tidbit about the E20, no more black backing for future production.

Location Southern CA (Orange County)
Utility = SCE

(24) Sunpower X21-345 Panels - 3 strings of 8 panels
(1) SMA 8000US inverter
System Cost = $37,100
CSI Rebate = $1474
Out of Pocket = $35,626
Tax Credit = $10,687.80
Incentive = $500 rebate after install complete
Net Cost = $24,438.20

DC STC Rating = 8280 kW
DC PTC Rating = 7685 kW
CEC-AC Rating = 7377 kW
CSI Rating = 7376 kW
First yr production = 12,785 kWh
Current annual usage = 14,200 kWh

Gross Cost/kW DC = $4.48
Net Cost/kW DC = $ 2.95

This is an all cash purchase. No financing. Just curious if any one has any comments or if I'm missing something here. 10% less than the next closest bid.

Hi frizzlefry,

Can you please PM me. I also live in SoCal, OC and have some questions for you. Thanks a bunch.

[Ionizer]

Here is a quote that I just got from a different Sunpower Elite Dealer on 06-03-2013.

Looks like the one we might be going with. Here is my quote from a different Elite SunPower Dealer on a similar cash deal. Does this sould like a good one?

Utility = SCE
(24) Sunpower X21-SPR345E-WHT-D Panels
(1) SMA SB8000US inverter
System Cost = $36,500
CSI Rebate = $1450
After rebate = $35,050
Tax Credit = $10,515.00
Net Cost = $24,535.00

DC STC Rating = 8280 kW
Current annual usage = 13,100 kWh

Gross Cost/kW DC = $4.41
Net Cost/kW DC = $ 2.96

Concrete Tile roof / Through attic install with a change to 3 Vents (low profile)
Pappered and double flashed.
25yr monitoring with 10 Yr. whole system/roof warranty.

[frizzlefry]

Looks like the one we might be going with. Here is my quote from a different Elite SunPower Dealer on a similar cash deal. Does this sould like a good one?

Utility = SCE
(24) Sunpower X21-SPR345E-WHT-D Panels
(1) SMA SB8000US inverter
System Cost = $36,500
CSI Rebate = $1450
After rebate = $35,050
Tax Credit = $10,515.00
Net Cost = $24,535.00

DC STC Rating = 8280 kW
Current annual usage = 13,100 kWh

Gross Cost/kW DC = $4.41
Net Cost/kW DC = $ 2.96

Concrete Tile roof / Through attic install with a change to 3 Vents (low profile)
Pappered and double flashed.
25yr monitoring with 10 Yr. whole system/roof warranty.

Nice. Looks like the competition is coming together and offering similar pricing.

[Ionizer]

Nice. Looks like the competition is coming together and offering similar pricing.

THANK YOU! I think YOUR Post made a big difference!

[PenguinSolar]

I had 5 companies bid the project. I specified the new X21 series panel. Negligible price increase compared to E20. Suprising tidbit about the E20, no more black backing for future production.

Not sure if your all black panels cost more. The 345s have white backing. Who quoted your project?

Curious does black or white backing matter in terms of performance or is it mainly just aesthetics?

Also had a question between choosing between mirco inverters and non, pros/cons?

I'm also in SoCal (OC), why is the brand of choice SunPower? A stronger dealer network out here? I know our builder offered SunPower but curious what are other alternatives or just stick with them and find the lowest cost.

Thanks!

[frizzlefry]

Curious does black or white backing matter in terms of performance or is it mainly just aesthetics?

Also had a question between choosing between mirco inverters and non, pros/cons?

I'm also in SoCal (OC), why is the brand of choice SunPower? A stronger dealer network out here? I know our builder offered SunPower but curious what are other alternatives or just stick with them and find the lowest cost.

Thanks!

Mostly aesthetics but the all black panels are rated 10W less at 335W. Pretty much negligible. Since our roof is low pitch and not really viewable from street level I didn't really care about getting a black.

There are alot of threads on micro inverters. It wasn't needed for us since we have zero shading on our roof. It's project specific whether or not to use micro inverters.

Chose Sunpower for warranty, 21.5% efficiency panels, and reputation. Contractor selected was based on pricing and reputation.

[russ]

Mostly aesthetics but the all black panels are rated 10W less at 335W. Pretty much negligible. Since our roof is low pitch and not really viewable from street level I didn't really care about getting a black.

There are alot of threads on micro inverters. It wasn't needed for us since we have zero shading on our roof. It's project specific whether or not to use micro inverters.

Chose Sunpower for warranty, 21.5% efficiency panels, and reputation. Contractor selected was based on pricing and reputation.

Well stated

[Explorer]

Looks like the one we might be going with. Here is my quote from a different Elite SunPower Dealer on a similar cash deal. Does this sould like a good one?

Utility = SCE
(24) Sunpower X21-SPR345E-WHT-D Panels
(1) SMA SB8000US inverter
System Cost = $36,500
CSI Rebate = $1450
After rebate = $35,050
Tax Credit = $10,515.00
Net Cost = $24,535.00

DC STC Rating = 8280 kW
Current annual usage = 13,100 kWh

Gross Cost/kW DC = $4.41
Net Cost/kW DC = $ 2.96

Concrete Tile roof / Through attic install with a change to 3 Vents (low profile)
Pappered and double flashed.
25yr monitoring with 10 Yr. whole system/roof warranty.

Can you tell me the dealer that offered this? I am not happy with either quote I have received for SunPower, the quote above is much better.

[KRenn]

Nice. Looks like the competition is coming together and offering similar pricing.

Gross cost at $4.41 a watt in California for SunPower? That's ridiculously low priced. Seems some installers really are cutting price to get business in the door.