I talked to an agent from Generac earlier today, and was told that their solution is incompatible with an existing solar setup that isn't there own. They said they would put me onto a list to be contacted when they have a future solution that will be compatible with existing systems.
I'm rather shocked this is not in any of the reviews or system information I was able to find. Is this true, or was the Generac rep misinformed?
Hybrid Installers in WI
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A bit technical: Sometimes you can get a design through code by using ASME Sec. VIII, Div. 2 design rules instead of Sec. VIII, Div.1, but the cost in time and treasure will remain high.
To my design experience, for large tankage, it's just as cheap and time consuming to start from scratch as it is to modify a tank originally designed for above ground 2 saddle mount. For small tanks, like < 1,000 gal. capacity, it'll cost to bury it.
Besides that, more than a few jurisdictions specifically disallow pressure vessels to be used in buried service, particularly if they contain compressible fluids. In such cases, either a sturdy wall is put around the vessel and made to look pretty, or the vessel is put in an open pit designed for that purpose and the pit surrounded by a fence.Leave a comment:
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Are you ranking cost per unit or cost per kWhr of battery capacity? Yes, the Enphase solution has the least cost because it is the smallest. The Generac solution is a result of their purchase of Pika which had a reputation as being expensive. I have heard that they are working on their cost structure to be more competitive.. They may have several sizes and one of those may be less expensive than a Tesla Powerwall but not on a per kWhr of storage capacity.Last edited by Ampster; 04-24-2020, 05:37 PM.Leave a comment:
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I have heard Generac is working on an integrated solution. They did recently purchase Pika, a battery manufacturer, and Nuerio a company that has expertise in measuring and controlling battery systems. The Neurio controller is the data gathering device inside the Tesla Powerwall and I have used one in a standalone application to turn on devices when my solar is producing, What little I have seen about the battery, it seems overpriced but the real value could be if they get the integration correct. Maybe the profit opportunity and and marketing opportunity would be enough for Generac to give an installer and you sufficient support in this emerginng market opportunity. That may give you some comfort. I think in many parts of the country a battery backup that can leverage solar and have a generator available for when the sun doesn't shine would be an attractive option. Strategically Generac seems to have identified that opportunity.
The battery is out. Here it is on the Generac website.
And here is a review by a local solar installer: Generac PWRCell Battery Review for 2020.
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I’m looking for a hybrid system installer. I’d like my system to essentially be capable of using 100% solar/battery power. Not ready to be actually off the grid, but I’d want my system to be capable of it.
Who is the best hybrid installer out there that will do a job in WI?
You can assume my budget can handle it and the goal is not to save money or have it eventually pay for itself. I just don’t want to be reliant on the power company anymore.
Hi GreenLatern,
Cool name by the way. While I can't help you find a local installer in WI, I can help you with battery options.
Lowest Cost
I would go with the Enphase Ensemble. When the microinverters detect a grid outage, it automatically switched over to a critical load panel. The downside that id has zero energy storage capacity. Meaning, the only time the critical loads will be powered is during the daytime.
Medium Cost
For a medium cost solution (and my personal favorite system) I recommend the Generac PWRcell. It is built by a reliable company that can integrate with other Generac products. My favorite part is you the battery banks are module therefore you can add more later better-controlling costs.
Top Shelf
Tesla Batteries. I think we all are aware of these babies. While I have nothing bad to say, my biggest warning I give to these batteries is about future servicing. Just like any latest tech, you're going to have a hard time finding someone to service it (say your installer goes out of business, which is possible).
I hope this helps.
Best,
AdamLeave a comment:
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For reasons of thermal expansion, and other thermophysical properties of propane, and so primarily for safety reasons, 80% is a pretty common max. fill on a residential propane tank.
An overfilled tank can explode. The more common and hopefully more likely result is that the pressure relief valve on the tank will lift and spew contents to relieve the over pressure. The giveaway there is the hissing sound the PRV males when it lifts and the smell of the odorant. Just hope that the PRV has been inspected on a regular basis and it operates as it should.
You also, and for practical reasons of delivery schedules and other things, may not want to drop below some minimum level like 5 - 10 % or greater. See your propane distributor or google for specifics on max. fill levels and reasons why it's a good reason to stay below the 80% level. You could always get larger or additional tankage, although there may be municipal restrictions on that in terms of number size and placement.Leave a comment:
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I haven't done the math on my generator yet to find out, but if I had to guess I would say that charging the batteries from the grid would be more economical and cleaner than the generator. My Generator runs on propane, and IIRC it uses it quite fast. I have a 1000gal propane tank for my house and at half speed the generator consumes 2.5gal/hr and about 4gal/hr at full speed.
My propane company never fills the tank 100% full. It seems like it's always 80% after a refill. So, 800 gallons, assuming they just filled it, gives me ~8 days of power at full speed. That's also assuming no other propane consumption. The other items that use propane in my house are the clothes dryer, oven, boiler for hot water and in-floor heat.
An overfilled tank can explode. The more common and hopefully more likely result is that the pressure relief valve on the tank will lift and spew contents to relieve the over pressure. The giveaway there is the hissing sound the PRV makes when it lifts and the smell of the odorant. Just hope that the PRV has been inspected on a regular basis and it operates as it should.
You also, and for practical reasons of delivery schedules and other things, may not want to drop below some minimum level like 5 - 10 % or greater. See your propane distributor or google for specifics on max. fill levels and reasons why it's a good reason to stay below the 80% level. You could always get larger or additional tankage, although there may be municipal restrictions on that in terms of number size and placement.Last edited by J.P.M.; 04-25-2020, 04:15 PM.Leave a comment:
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I haven't done the math on my generator yet to find out, but if I had to guess I would say that charging the batteries from the grid would be more economical and cleaner than the generator. My Generator runs on propane, and IIRC it uses it quite fast. I have a 1000gal propane tank for my house and at half speed the generator consumes 2.5gal/hr and about 4gal/hr at full speed.
My propane company never fills the tank 100% full. It seems like it's always 80% after a refill. So, 800 gallons, assuming they just filled it, gives me ~8 days of power at full speed. That's also assuming no other propane consumption. The other items that use propane in my house are the clothes dryer, oven, boiler for hot water and in-floor heat.
Last edited by GreenLantern; 04-24-2020, 11:36 AM.Leave a comment:
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That is good advice and as a blanket statement for active members on this forum and/or those living off grid that is probably true. However, as of June 30, 2019, in the the case of the 50,000 sites at which one or more Tesla Powerwalls were installed that is not the case that they charged from a generator. That number is probably even larger today based on guesstimates of Powerwall installations. That also goes for StorEdge installations but I couldn't find a number for StorEdge installations.
I do think there is a real market opportunity for an inverter driven generator or an interface that could fill that niche since a Powerwall and StorEdge have no generator input option. That is an option available for more expensive hybrid inverter systems.Leave a comment:
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I do think there is a real market opportunity for an inverter driven generator or an interface that could fill that niche since a Powerwall and StorEdge have no generator input option. That is an option available for more expensive hybrid inverter systems.
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Ok, that makes sense. I suppose in that case then I may have to rely on some alternative sources for the batteries. Thank you for the help!Leave a comment:
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I live in the country and it seems like whenever it gets windy or we get storms the power goes out. I have a brand new Generac whole home generator. Since I've had it the power has gone out several times, and it's failed twice, despite passing every weekly test it does. It's under warranty and they are looking into it, but I'm not happy with it at all to say the least. It's also annoying that there is a delay between power outage and the generator kicking on, which means I have to run around the house and reset a bunch of clocks on things like stoves, microwaves, thermostats, etc. I'm hoping that the battery power will be fast enough that it's uninterrupted.
I am currently talking with a local solar installer and so far they seem good, but I guess I can maybe rephrase the question a different way. How do I know they are really good? I haven't had a lot of time to really research this and know what equipment is really good and what isn't. I want to make sure what I'm getting is the best I can get. I don't want to cut corners. I want it robust and reliable.Maybe I'm just getting ahead of myself and need to wait to get details of the equipment they are planning to use and can post it here to get some feedback?Last edited by Ampster; 04-23-2020, 05:10 PM.Leave a comment:
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I do have a transfer switch installed. I would not want to charge the batteries off the grid or generator. I'd rather charge them from solar and be self reliant, if possible. Even if that means I need a larger solar system that can both charge batteries and give me power during the day. If that's not possible, then perhaps I would just scale back the batteries to only power critical things (like well pump for example).
Basically, I want to be grid tied for now, but if I had to cut off from the grid I want it so I wouldn't even notice.
If you do not have more than one way to charge the batteries then you should expect times of no power if they are what you are relying on.
Most people that have a hybrid grid tied solar pv system along which includes batteries also have a limited power supply if the grid goes down. If it was me I would invest in multiple generators along with the batteries.Leave a comment:
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I do have a transfer switch installed. I would not want to charge the batteries off the grid or generator. I'd rather charge them from solar and be self reliant, if possible. Even if that means I need a larger solar system that can both charge batteries and give me power during the day. If that's not possible, then perhaps I would just scale back the batteries to only power critical things (like well pump for example).
Basically, I want to be grid tied for now, but if I had to cut off from the grid I want it so I wouldn't even notice.Leave a comment:
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I live in the country and it seems like whenever it gets windy or we get storms the power goes out. I have a brand new Generac whole home generator. Since I've had it the power has gone out several times, and it's failed twice, despite passing every weekly test it does. It's under warranty and they are looking into it, but I'm not happy with it at all to say the least. It's also annoying that there is a delay between power outage and the generator kicking on, which means I have to run around the house and reset a bunch of clocks on things like stoves, microwaves, thermostats, etc. I'm hoping that the battery power will be fast enough that it's uninterrupted.
I am currently talking with a local solar installer and so far they seem good, but I guess I can maybe rephrase the question a different way. How do I know they are really good? I haven't had a lot of time to really research this and know what equipment is really good and what isn't. I want to make sure what I'm getting is the best I can get. I don't want to cut corners. I want it robust and reliable.
Maybe I'm just getting ahead of myself and need to wait to get details of the equipment they are planning to use and can post it here to get some feedback?
You can add solar but I think that will just be an added expense although a grid tie solar pv system with Net metering is the best of most worlds.
I really can't help you with your decision concerning an installer. Although from what I have heard most of those companies do not last anywhere near the life of the equipment warranty.Leave a comment:
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