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  • #16
    I think, that for me at least, the biggest question regarding the ensemble stuff will be what sort of requirements the 200G will require, in terms of space, interconnections, and grounding. My assumptions are as such:

    - 240/120 power in (from main panel in most installations; from meter/main in those without combo panels)
    - A contactor or switch to seperate output from input when grid stability goes away.
    - 240/120 power out (to 'critical loads' subpanel)
    - Neutral and Ground will still be bonded at the main. Since L1 and L2 will be interrupted in the 200G during island mode, and since enphase IQ6/7/8 inverters don't have a neutral, then the 200G will require a Neutral Forming Transformer that will come online in island mode, to maintain 120V per phase.
    - All of this able to communicate and be controlled by the central controller.
    - All of the above seems to imply that the 200G is not going to be a small item, so space concerns may actually impact how easily it can work as an 'upgrade path' for existing IQ system owners. Yes, the batteries will also have a decent space requirement, but those can be placed anywhere - the 200G, however, has a much more limited options for location.

    At this point (a point at which I'm actually designing my own personal home's system), I really with Enphase was a bit more forthcoming on details.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by CraziFuzzy View Post
      ..... Yes, the batteries will also have a decent space requirement, but those can be placed anywhere - the 200G, however, has a much more limited options for location.

      At this point (a point at which I'm actually designing my own personal home's system), I really with Enphase was a bit more forthcoming on details.
      There are new fire regulations coming down that may influence where and how much Lithium battery capacity can be placed in a dwelling, including a garage.

      I have also heard that the Ensemble system will only be available to installers. Maybe that is why there are few details.
      9 kW solar. Driving EVs since 2012

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Ampster View Post

        There are new fire regulations coming down that may influence where and how much Lithium battery capacity can be placed in a dwelling, including a garage.

        I have also heard that the Ensemble system will only be available to installers. Maybe that is why there are few details.
        The 2020 standard is going to be a maximum of 50kWh for Lithium energy storage. That's probably more than the average homeowner is going to need.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by emartin00 View Post

          The 2020 standard is going to be a maximum of 50kWh for Lithium energy storage. That's probably more than the average homeowner is going to need.
          You are correct the limit is 50 kWh for residential. There are more strict requirements for systems of 20 kWh or greater.

          https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2018/08/...nia-fire-code/
          Last edited by Ampster; 10-23-2019, 11:37 AM.
          9 kW solar. Driving EVs since 2012

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          • #20
            As it has been pointed out, Ensemble is not providing anything new that Outback/Magnasine AC coupled battery backup solutions have been providing for years. More recently, Tesla Powerwall is another similar solution. They are all expensive and complex especially for backup power use cases. Does anyone know if Ensemble will be significantly less expensive/complex than other AC coupled battery backup solutions? I see the Enphase AC batteries are much more expensive than Powerwall on per Kwh basis.

            Also, Ensemble generator integration is not available? Will you be able to at least charge from the grid?
            Last edited by solardreamer; 10-23-2019, 01:21 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by solardreamer View Post
              .........

              Also, Ensemble generator integration is not available? Will you be able to at least charge from the grid?
              It will depend if Enphase implements that on a case by case basis. As you may know Tesla has disabled it so there is no hassle for their users taking the Investment Tax Credit. Interestingly Tesla can enable grid charging as they may be doing today for some PowerWalls in the Bay Area who are under Storm Watch and are facing another Public Safety Power Shutdown (?PSPS).

              9 kW solar. Driving EVs since 2012

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              • #22
                "You are correct the limit is 50 kWh for residential. There are more strict requirements for systems of 20 kWh or greater."

                While I have a lot of respect for firefighters and the fire code (speaking as a 3rd generation volunteer FF, myself), I'm not sure how this ordinance makes any sense. You mean to tell me that I cannot install a UL approved 50+ kWh electrical storage appliance in my home (or mounted to the exterior of my home).

                BUT, I can park my 70-100 kWh, non-UL, non-electrician installed Tesla in the garage and charge it there? A battery that's subject to vibration, road damage, potential collisions, and a variety of other hazards which could result in cell damage and thermal runaway while charging.

                How does that make sense?!?!

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                • #23
                  Link to California code
                  https://up.codes/viewer/california/c...nd-systems#608

                  This may not actually even apply to PowerWall. PowerWall is a pre-engineered stationary storage system which is UL 9540 listed. So some/many of the requirements for 20+kWh storage array may not apply.

                  https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/...rthamerica.pdf

                  But you may still have issues mounting them flush to interior walls. The new code seems to want the storage arrays to be free standing. But if you mount it outside, then this is not required.
                  Last edited by JSchnee21; 10-24-2019, 02:38 PM.

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                  • #24
                    I am glad they have not gone so far as to tell me what I can park in my garage. You are correct it doesn't make sense. Actually In the big picture it doesn't make sense to park 20 gallons of gasoline in a garage either. I love not having oil drips on the garage floor and that there is no exhaust blowing into the house if the door into the house is open when I park.
                    9 kW solar. Driving EVs since 2012

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by JSchnee21 View Post
                      "You are correct the limit is 50 kWh for residential. There are more strict requirements for systems of 20 kWh or greater."

                      While I have a lot of respect for firefighters and the fire code (speaking as a 3rd generation volunteer FF, myself), I'm not sure how this ordinance makes any sense. You mean to tell me that I cannot install a UL approved 50+ kWh electrical storage appliance in my home (or mounted to the exterior of my home).

                      BUT, I can park my 70-100 kWh, non-UL, non-electrician installed Tesla in the garage and charge it there? A battery that's subject to vibration, road damage, potential collisions, and a variety of other hazards which could result in cell damage and thermal runaway while charging.

                      How does that make sense?!?!
                      Don't know the exact reasoning but I suspect they don't want anything heavy and stationary (i.e. not easily moved) that can interfere with firefighters. EV is mobile and relatively easy to move out the way if necessary.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by solardreamer View Post

                        Don't know the exact reasoning but I suspect they don't want anything heavy and stationary (i.e. not easily moved) that can interfere with firefighters. EV is mobile and relatively easy to move out the way if necessary.
                        My guess is that someone has told the politicians that a large energy storage system is a potential fire hazard.

                        It doesn't need to make sense but if it gets a politician itchy then they try to push through legislation to "protect" the public.

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