New With Questions

[Jerry Liebler]

There is a way to get PV power during grid down and the ability to add batteries, later that'll add about $4000 up front, if an 11Kw PV system is chosen here is the alternative: Sol-Ark 8kw hybrid inverter ($6500), Sol-Ark transfer hardware ($450), 36 Seraphim 305 W panels @ $149 ea.,36 Tigo TS4-r-f @$37.82ea., 1 Tigo RSS @$162 = $13838 + racking, wiring & installation. Basically The Sol-Ark inverter and transfer switch replacing a more conventional string inverter. With the Sol-Ark one can add 48volt batteries at any time to obtain 24 hour "back-up" and /or add a backup generator as well.

[LPG]

Glad to see someone do that for a risk management reason. Do you drive an EV that you can charge during those times instead of waiting in long lines at gas stations?

Yep, my gas station is my garage

[Ampster]

There's no TOU in my area I just saw that it was one of the modes configurable on the PW, I wanted the PW just for backup power, in FL after really bad hurricanes gas stations have hour long lines and if there's infrastructure damage they'll shut off propane lines to neighborhoods. However, the sun doesn't car about any of that so as long as my roof doesn't fly away I can have power.

Glad to see someone do that for a risk management reason. Do you drive an EV that you can charge during those times instead of waiting in long lines at gas stations?

[LPG]

Where are you located? What is your highest rate on TOU?

There's no TOU in my area I just saw that it was one of the modes configurable on the PW, I wanted the PW just for backup power, in FL after really bad hurricanes gas stations have hour long lines and if there's infrastructure damage they'll shut off propane lines to neighborhoods. However, the sun doesn't car about any of that so as long as my roof doesn't fly away I can have power.

[Ampster]

You should look into the PowerWall again. .........

You can also use it for TOU if that's of benefit in your area.


I tried looking at other alternatives like Outback but the hybrid inverter alone was more than a single PW, then on top of that i'd have to source the batteries. Since the PW combines the inverter and the batteries for less $ I decided to go that route.

Where are you located? What is your highest rate on TOU?

[LPG]

You should look into the PowerWall again. I already have a grid tied system (using Enphase Micro Inverters) when they come to install the PW they install a second piece of equipment called a gateway. The gateway is essentially a big relay between your house and your POCO. When the power goes out the PW tells the gateway to open the contactors (this disconnects you from the grid and islands your house) then the PW starts generate a sine wave similar to the grid which tricks your grid tied solar to start generating again, this power is then used to charge the PW as it discharges from your house loads.

The PW controls the output of the micros by rising or lowering the sine wave (essentially voltage on the line) and when the battery is full it tells the solar to stop producing. When the battery reaches a certain discharge % configured by you, then it turns the solar back on to recharge.

You can also use it for TOU if that's of benefit in your area.


I tried looking at other alternatives like Outback but the hybrid inverter alone was more than a single PW, then on top of that i'd have to source the batteries. Since the PW combines the inverter and the batteries for less $ I decided to go that route.

[scrambler]

Below the post on the configurations I am looking at for a similar situation
https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum...531#post393531

[paulcheung]

1. I'd like 5000W of available power. So mid size portable generator load.

2. As a starting goal I'd like to have that power for most of the daylight hours. Or let's say while the PV array is able to provide 5000W. (9000W rated array). If we're charging a battery and can have power at night even better. But my goal is to use the panels for something while the sun is shining regardless of the power grid situation. I want to be able to do this until the raiders get me or the batteries need to be replaced.

3. Can be all DIY except maybe installing the panels my roof is high. Very comfortable running wire etc. willing to spend what it takes to achieve these seemingly simple goals

4. Can be maintenance heavy. I'm the guy who fires up the generators every month alternating between fuel types and keeps a log of these activities. (Yes it's a spreadsheet) the shame. Lol.

If money is no problem, you can get the 9KW grid tie solar along with an XW6848 inverter with a set 8 of Trojan SIND 06 1225 batteries, use AC coupling. You will have close 5000watts of power when the sun is shining. it should last you 10 years if you learn how to take care of those expensive batteries and use the power carefully when the grid is gone.
Best wishes.

[Mike90250]

Eventually in 10 years, your batteries fail. You could have a bank of capacitors you can charge with a knife switch in the AM, get enough power to boot the inverter up and then run 1kw of loads. real sketchy, you need to understand the electronics and bad ways it can fail when charging up the bank with a knife switch. But that would buy you 20-30 years till the electronics start to die.

[sgtgeo]

I think every discussion on the issue really needs to start out by answering 4 basic questions:

1) What do you want to power when the grid goes down?
2) How long do you need to provide that power?
3) How much are you willing to spend and or DIY?
4) How much time are you willing to devote to maintenance?

Answering questions 1 and 2 is always very easy until you get to 3 and 4, but attempting to answer the latter two is futile without a clear picture of the design goals of the former.

1. I'd like 5000W of available power. So mid size portable generator load.

2. As a starting goal I'd like to have that power for most of the daylight hours. Or let's say while the PV array is able to provide 5000W. (9000W rated array). If we're charging a battery and can have power at night even better. But my goal is to use the panels for something while the sun is shining regardless of the power grid situation. I want to be able to do this until the raiders get me or the batteries need to be replaced.

3. Can be all DIY except maybe installing the panels my roof is high. Very comfortable running wire etc. willing to spend what it takes to achieve these seemingly simple goals

4. Can be maintenance heavy. I'm the guy who fires up the generators every month alternating between fuel types and keeps a log of these activities. (Yes it's a spreadsheet) the shame. Lol.

[sgtgeo]

Okay, you shifted your priorities. Buy lots of guns, have a big stash of food and staples and have a defendable location then buy nickel iron Edison cells and stash of potassium hydroxide for regenerating them every decade and a few gallons of float oil and set up a way of making distilled water to supply those beasts. Of course realize those solar panels are going to be an advertisement for someone with bigger guns to come raid your stuff.

Obviously in this scenario all those other items are taken care of extensively. Power by Solar being way down on the list when you're looking for the "what else could I do" items

Guess ill I'll just be happy saving $50 a month and being able to tell people how awesome my energy independence feels while drinking a nice strawberry peach mocha IPA down at Whole Foods.

Lol

[Ksnax]

I think every discussion on the issue really needs to start out by answering 4 basic questions:

1) What do you want to power when the grid goes down?
2) How long do you need to provide that power?
3) How much are you willing to spend and or DIY?
4) How much time are you willing to devote to maintenance?

Answering questions 1 and 2 is always very easy until you get to 3 and 4, but attempting to answer the latter two is futile without a clear picture of the design goals of the former.

[peakbagger]

Okay, you shifted your priorities. Buy lots of guns, have a big stash of food and staples and have a defendable location then buy nickel iron Edison cells and stash of potassium hydroxide for regenerating them every decade and a few gallons of float oil and set up a way of making distilled water to supply those beasts. Of course realize those solar panels are going to be an advertisement for someone with bigger guns to come raid your stuff.

[J.P.M.]

Yes I want it all, I want to offset some of my electrical bill and I want some TEOTWAWKI potential.

- Then you want an off grid system. But know you'll need pretty deep pockets and a need to forget about anything that approaches cost effectiveness. Get informed instead of believing all the hype you've read and heard and you may begin to understand why most of what you want is largely unrealistic at this time.

How is anyone NOT thinking about this when spending this amount of money on a solar system?

- A lot of informed folks, some of whom are posters here, have spent a lot of time thinking about it. Use your head: Why do you think many informed folks have not done it ? Do you think it's a possibility that they have crunched out the realities and have mostly come to the conclusion that it's not practical ? Might it be you are ignorant of the same realities other, more informed folks see ?

"Yep put those solar panels on the roof works great as long as we're getting power from the power company" WTF. "Reduce energy dependence they say" how is that exactly? My energy dependence is still 100% based on the power company sending me power to allow my array to work.

- Well, your energy dependence doesn't need to be dependent on anything except your finances and your ability to inform yourself as to the somewhat drastic lifestyle adjustments you'll probably need to make but don't know about yet.

My wife is pretty excited about the whole thing and likely we'll move forward with a grid tied system Maybe with the LG battery depends on cost. The battery is ~$6500 but one company said it would add $11-12K to the cost seems like too much to mount a battery on the other side of the wall where the inverted is located. Must be pricey bolts or the 3' or wire they will need. Sounds like a scam to me. If you use the StorEdge and the LG battery are there even any other components?

- As a general comment, many of us think batteries are still too pricey and not ready for prime time just yet. If you want to be an early adoptor, knock yourself out. Just know the reality of what you're getting into. You can still do a grid tie system an add battery storage at a later time.

OK, smart solar people:

TEOTWAWKI happens BAM!!! zombies, pandemic, whatever the grid is not coming back up. What is your plan for the kW's of energy sitting dormant on your roof?

- Since you ask ( and pardon my presumption about being a smart solar person) my plan is to not worry about what's on the roof. I'll have bigger problems than finding power for my laptop or cellphone, or TV or hairdryer/toaster/ whatever. Otherwise, I cover my power needs with self reliance and figure I'll survive just fine.

your awesome diesel, natural gas, propane, gas, genset will be out of fuel faster than you think. Are you content to have you PV array just sit there looking expensive?

- And your off grid PV may well be useless faster than you think without spares and/or once your starving and freezing neighbors find out you have power.

I think having a potential output of 400v to a battery is a liability if you could have 48V with a different inverter type.

- In a SHTF scenario, which option is better may be a moot point.

I know this is a what-if so go with it.

Yea, kind of useless huh ?

Tell me you'll collect all the car batteries you can find and figure out how to charge them. Something to give me hope. You plan to wire 1,234 iphone batteries up in your basement so you can watch movies on your flat screen while repelling the zombie horde.

Some of you must have thought of the what-ifs and how the huge solar investment will help.

- And having thought about it and concluded it's mostly a waste of time may be part of the reason it's not discussed much.

Thanks

- You're welcome.

Have a nice day.

[SunEagle]

It's just one Yeti, provided as an example of what can be done, but I think you guys provide a realistic perspective on the limitations. I certainly didn't buy mine as a freezer backup, but it works better than none at all.

I think you are attempting to parse the difference between something that is portable against a fixed installation however. There simply is no comparison cost wise. My point was ease.

The problem with equipment like the Yeti is that you will pay much more for that stuff then building your own portable system. But if people are not DIY friendly then getting a pre-built package is much easier and cleaner.