Help me find a Hybrid Inverter with these specs...

[APD]

If you turn your battery disconnect switch to OFF, will it still function as a grid tie and feed the grid from your PV array?

[ButchDeal]

If you turn your battery disconnect switch to OFF, will it still function as a grid tie and feed the grid from your PV array?

WHY in the HELL would you do that?

I think you have some kind of miss understanding of how a bimodal inverter works.

The simplest ones (and the ones we have been talking about here like the Flexpower 1 with FXR inverter) have two AC connections. One goes to the grid and the other goes to your emergency panel. When the grid is up, the inverter internally ties AC1 to AC2 and feeds power into it. Thus supplying power to both the grid and your emergency loads. When the grid goes down, it disconnects from AC1 thus disconnecting from the grid but keeps AC2 and your emergency circuits up using battery and solar. There is no need to disconnect from the batteries unless there is a fire or some other emergency requiring shut down.
The batteries are connected to the DC bus and the charge controllers (and thus solar) are also connected to the DC bus.

You can program it how to behave with the solar power. Mine is on net metering so I use it for backup. It acts like a grid tie inverter every day till the grid goes down, then it keeps things running (we often don't notice the outages). The batteries are full most of the time so nearly all the power goes to net metering except during grid outages.

you can see my systems output and house consumption here: http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=31117&sid=29881

note we just were hit by snow storm so no production today. My system only offsets about a 1/4 of the whole house load (we have a heat pump) but keeps my emergency circuits going with no problem (fridge, freezer, well pump, lights, internet, etc).

photos of my system being installed (self install with friends and BBQ, and electrician for main electrical)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...49346938017457

[APD]

WHY in the HELL would you do that?

I think you have some kind of miss understanding of how a bimodal inverter works.

No, I understand perfectly how they work.
I can think of two reasons:
1) Im looking for maximum flexibility....Buy the solar array and inverter now, use as a grid tie inverter, and then add batteries later.
2) Or if I had a problem with the batteries, I could remove batteries and would still be offsetting my grid use.

I dont think that's a crazy idea.

[ButchDeal]

No, I understand perfectly how they work.
I can think of two reasons:
1) Im looking for maximum flexibility....Buy the solar array and inverter now, use as a grid tie inverter, and then add batteries later.
2) Or if I had a problem with the batteries, I could remove batteries and would still be offsetting my grid use.

I dont think that's a crazy idea.

will not work that way. The only inverter that will is the SolarEdge StorEdge inverter that can work with or without batteries but the battery is hard to get (powerwall 1)

The other option is to do AC coupling.

Both options will cost more in the end.
The simplest cheapest solution is to use cheaper smaller batteries (make sure that they can handle the load so most likely AGM VRSLA, can charge and discharge at higher rates ) for now, and latter you could add more battery capacity. My battery bank was $1,200 at local battery mart store (batterymart.com).
There just is no half way with bimodal inverters.

[Sunking]

Butch why an autotransformer and not a step up isolated transformer other than cost?

[ButchDeal]

Butch why an autotransformer and not a step up isolated transformer other than cost?

I was recommending the product that I know and use for our installs. My personal one was just to keep everything under the same warranty/ manufacturer in my home and it was a recommended use (well pump step up).

[APD]

I don't know who told you this but they are partially right and mostly wrong.

So how was my original statement mostly wrong?

[ButchDeal]

So how was my original statement mostly wrong?

They do function as grid tie inverters. The GT versions are used almost exclusively as grid tie inverters. Yes batteries are required but can be of minimal capacity if designed well.

the VFX and FX line is for non-grid use.

[APD]

I was told that the Outback GTFX & GVFX line of inverters need to have batteries connected to even function, so it would not act as a grid tie inverter without batteries.

So with everything you've said, this statement sounds 100% correct

[ButchDeal]

Sure given the original post I read the " without batteries" as tertiary to the main comment that they can not function as grid tie inverters.
given that you wanted a bimodal system, the batteries are required, in that context the inverters will function as grid tie.

[Sunking]

I was recommending the product that I know and use for our installs. My personal one was just to keep everything under the same warranty/ manufacturer in my home and it was a recommended use (well pump step up).

OK fair enough, was just curious if there was a technical reason.

[ButchDeal]

OK fair enough, was just curious if there was a technical reason.

Also cheaper, lighter ( as you mentioned ) and in light load like a pump or inverter balancing should be more than robust enough for decades of use.

[Sunking]

Also cheaper, lighter ( as you mentioned ) and in light load like a pump or inverter balancing should be more than robust enough for decades of use.

I kind of knew it was ca$h. One of those questions I already knew the answer. Just making sure I was not missing something. THX

[ButchDeal]

I kind of knew it was ca$h. One of those questions I already knew the answer. Just making sure I was not missing something. THX

Almost everything is a cost / benefit balance. For other type uses, a different transformer type might balance out more. I certainly didn't intend to imply that this was the best for all solutions just fits the well pump and a few other light uses well. SolarEdge has their auto-transformer for the StorEdge balance needs (25a ) and Xantrex has an auto transformer as well in the mix.

https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/se_storedge_inverter_datasheet_na.pdf

[Sunking]

Almost everything is a cost / benefit balance. For other type uses, a different transformer type might balance out more. I certainly didn't intend to imply that this was the best for all solutions just fits the well pump and a few other light uses well. SolarEdge has their auto-transformer for the StorEdge balance needs (25a ) and Xantrex has an auto transformer as well in the mix.

Butch I am good with it. Just making sure I was not missing something. I consider you a peer and think you know your stuff. We may not always agree on how to accomplish something, but I respect you and think highly of you. I am sure you know the advantages/disadvantages of autotransformers. I do not work with hybrid inverters and just making sure I was not over looking something. I get it, cost benefit.