Looks like the hybrid system is what I want

[ButchDeal]

Thinking out loud and maybe this is jack talking, what if the house critical systems were off grid, is that even possible? Using the poco to only power the non critical items.

just set up critical loads on a bimodal inverter. it will be the same effect without having to cycle the batteries constantly. If you want them to be truly off grid it is much more difficult to design for, costly. Off grid system have to be large but have no place to put the extra power on great days so they are much less efficient.
if it is bimodal, the extra power goes towards the rest of the home, and if no need there, it goes to the grid.

[Djcoak]

just set up critical loads on a bimodal inverter. it will be the same effect without having to cycle the batteries constantly. If you want them to be truly off grid it is much more difficult to design for, costly. Off grid system have to be large but have no place to put the extra power on great days so they are much less efficient.
if it is bimodal, the extra power goes towards the rest of the home, and if no need there, it goes to the grid.

got it, thanks. I was kinda thinking that but wanted to throw it out there anyway.

[SunEagle]

I would think if the home could use that power it does? With the wife and I working, the house really uses little power of the fridge freezer and of course AC in the summer.

Thinking out loud and maybe this is jack talking, what if the house critical systems were off grid, is that even possible? Using the poco to only power the non critical items.

Also, we don't have nat gas where I am but supposedly it is coming. How long does nat gas run if you had a wide spread outage? Should I swap the electric to nat gas. Cheaper to tun yes, but not as easy to run in a power outage.....

The problem with any "off grid" battery system is that the batteries cost a lot and like the gen set may never be used but unlike the gen set will still die after a few years.

At this time there isn't really any battery chemistry that can produce power for less than 99% of the US POCO's. IMO batteries for an emergency power backup is not a cost effective direction.

[gmanInPA]

Djcoak you're going to almost certainly still need a generator - unless you think that a $30k / 3 ton battery is inconspicuous ( in addition to being quite high maintenance ) a generator does not have to be noisy. The noise is easy to abate. They don't run constantly in a hybrid setup, only when the batteries are low and there is insufficient sun.

IMO, a yuppy prepper trying to make their home more resillent is going to probably end up using hybrid. You'll just need to find your sweet spot between battery storage and generator use but doing so without a generator - especially in OH - that's gonna be hugely expensive. If you thought $27k was expensive... You could spend that just in batteries if you want to be able to endure 3-4 days without sun. A solid LP or diesel generator on the other hand is about 1/4 of that. If you want quiet, see if you can find a military surplus MEP-802/803 generator. Very quiet.

[Djcoak]

The problem with any "off grid" battery system is that the batteries cost a lot and like the gen set may never be used but unlike the gen set will still die after a few years.

At this time there isn't really any battery chemistry that can produce power for less than 99% of the US POCO's. IMO batteries for an emergency power backup is not a cost effective direction.

Guess it's a good thing I don't care about cost effective and realize the pocos could go bye bye at any moment. Give a hacker a chance and we are screwed.

[Djcoak]

Guest you're going to almost certainly still need a generator - unless you think that a $30k / 3 ton battery is inconspicuous ( in addition to being quite high maintenance ) a generator does not have to be noisy. The noise is easy to abate. They don't run constantly in a hybrid setup, only when the batteries are low and there is insufficient sun.

IMO, a yuppy prepper trying to make their home more resillent is going to probably end up using hybrid. You'll just need to find your sweet spot between battery storage and generator use but doing so without a generator - especially in OH - that's gonna be hugely expensive. If you thought $27k was expensive... You could spend that just in batteries if you want to be able to endure 3-4 days without sun. A solid LP or diesel generator on the other hand is about 1/4 of that. If you want quiet, see if you can find a military surplus MEP-802/803 generator. Very quiet.

true but I still need fuel even propane won't last forever. Barring a nuclear holocost the sun should be around for a few years, and besides, what's wrong with a 3 ton battery........just kidding. When I am thinking power outage, I am thinking months, not days or weeks. My gen unit would be fine and a better muffler would make it quieter. My opposition would be to running it constant for power, where with a solar system, I can run it in bursts

[SunEagle]

Guess it's a good thing I don't care about cost effective and realize the pocos could go bye bye at any moment. Give a hacker a chance and we are screwed.

If you are worried about having electricity after the "grid" has been hacked and shut down you are focused on the wrong priorities.

[gmanInPA]

There is no fool proof solution for emergency power imo. You need to take your budget and figure out what mix gives you the most kWhs for that money. Just be sure to factor in fuel costs, storage, and availability, as well as a reasonable service life for batteries.

[gmanInPA]

true but I still need fuel even propane won't last forever. Barring a nuclear holocost the sun should be around for a few years, and besides, what's wrong with a 3 ton battery........just kidding. When I am thinking power outage, I am thinking months, not days or weeks. My gen unit would be fine and a better muffler would make it quieter. My opposition would be to running it constant for power, where with a solar system, I can run it in bursts

Yes, fuel runs out. If you get a tri-fuel kit for your existing generator (US Carb) or a Diesel, which can run on several fuels, you'll at least have options.

[Djcoak]

If you are worried about having electricity after the "grid" has been hacked and shut down you are focused on the wrong priorities.

Yeah I mean why the heck would I want to have water or heat, please stop posting on my thread, you make no sense. It's apparent your against solar as a back up so I have no use for your comments.

[gmanInPA]

When we mention generator in this context btw, I suspect most of us are saying so with the idea in mind that the generator runs to charge batteries - not to supply power. If you had a decent-sized battery you might have a generator run for 4 hours every day or every other day with those kind of loads and little sun. Just approximating.

[Djcoak]

Yes, fuel runs out. If you get a tri-fuel kit for your existing generator (US Carb) or a Diesel, which can run on several fuels, you'll at least have options.

options are a plus.

[Djcoak]

When we mention generator in this context btw, I suspect most of us are saying so with the idea in mind that the generator runs to charge batteries - not to supply power. If you had a decent-sized battery you might have a generator run for 4 hours every day or every other day with those kind of loads and little sun. Just approximating.

I would guess this to be more of an issue in the winter than summer. Worst case I can even kill the power to the furnace, it will still heat the house without the blower but I wouldn't get over 50 in the house.

Guess I am seeing that solar really is as inefficient as I thought or at least the storage is, that's why it will never be a solution or replacement for nat gas, coal or nuclear.

[gmanInPA]

Guess I am seeing that solar really is as inefficient as I thought or at least the storage is, that's why it will never be a solution or replacement for nat gas, coal or nuclear.

Wouldn't say never - just not yet. The real problem is that there are no prime-time-ready and inexpensive storage options out there just yet.

[SunEagle]

Yeah I mean why the heck would I want to have water or heat, please stop posting on my thread, you make no sense. It's apparent your against solar as a back up so I have no use for your comments.

Then don't read them. I have no patience with preppers but to each his own.

Oh by the way I built two solar/ battery systems but then realized my money could have been better spent.

[Djcoak]

Then don't read them? Why post? If you don't want to prep then don't. Way to be a good moderator. I really dont care what you think