Question for offgrid system

[Sunking]

Logan005 Do you consider Hybrid or Grid-interactive to be ok, or in the same boat as backup? .

IMO no. A hybrid system with batteries still requires a generator. The hybrid inverter is far more expensive than a conventioanl GTI. With a hybrid system when AC power is Out you have very limited power requiring all your critical loads to be re-routed to a Emergency Panel and that cost some serious dollars to rewire your home for very limited power. Both initial and long term cost a Pad Mounted Whole Hours generator is a much better way to go. No rewiring of the home, and when power does go out, you can run everything in your home like nothing happened. Additionally your hybrid system is less efficient, and those batteries set there and do nothing for 5 years and need replaced.

What you need to understand many of the people responding to you like Butch, Amy, and Jeffory have vested interest in solar and selling you something. They only have one answer, the company answer. Other pros like myself could careless which route you go and have nothing to gain either way. If you were my client, I would present all options and give you my opinion which would work best for you. If it were Solar I would tell you. Last thing I would ever recommend to anyone is a Hybrid System. You gain nothing at higher cost. The only person gaining anything is the person who sold it to you and keeps gaining returns with battery replacement.

[gmanInPA]

Sunking what I was trying to understand from Logan005 if he was lumping together hybrid with off-grid in this statement:

...If you decided to dedicate panels to maintaining batteries, once battery bank reaches FULL, rest of that days power is wasted. no savings there.

I would imagine most hybrid/grid-interactive owners would disagree since once the batteries are full, the rest of the days power is directed at loads and sell back - not wasted at all. I totally agree with a generator being a non-official, but essential requirement. Honestly, I'm not sure why they're not more common. IMO, that should come first, before anything else.

I see your point about re-wiring and can sympathize, having invested considerably for such re-wiring. I wish builders were more conscientious about critical loads when constructing - as this would be valuable to a home and be marginally more expensive if done from the beginning.

However... just as it pains you when people buy batteries for the sake of batteries, it pains me when people by a generator sized for their electric bill rather than their essentials. Generators are just less efficient running at partial capacity and it just wastes fuel. Supposing a long emergency like a hurricane it might become very unwise to try to support huge loads and thus burn excess fuel - yet an over-sized generator will leave one few options but to do so. Sizing for critical loads plus wiggle room is wiser IMO.

[Sunking]

I would imagine most hybrid/grid-interactive owners would disagree since once the batteries are full, the rest of the days power is directed at loads and sell back .

That is because they do not know a hybrid system is not near as efficient operating at much low voltages. Batteries are only used when power is out. Otherwise they sit there and collect dust and use power staying charged. 5 years, replace them. They are not looking at the Big Picture of initial cost, limitations, recurring battery replacement, and operation. You still need the genny and fuel.

[gmanInPA]

That is because they do not know a hybrid system is not near as efficient operating at much low voltages. Batteries are only used when power is out. Otherwise they sit there and collect dust and use power staying charged. 5 years, replace them. They are not looking at the Big Picture of initial cost, limitations, and operation.

I get that... Okay.. so the burning question I have is... did your batteries abandon you when you were a kid or something?

[SunEagle]

I get that... Okay.. so the burning question I have is... did your batteries abandon you when you were a kid or something?

Actually Sunking has been exposed to more dead batteries then most people based on his line of work at the time.

[Sunking]

I get that... Okay.. so the burning question I have is... did your batteries abandon you when you were a kid or something?

No quite the opposite. They are like dead beat children that never leave home.

[ButchDeal]

What you need to understand many of the people responding to you like Butch, Amy, and Jeffory have vested interest in solar and selling you something. They only have one answer, the company answer. Other pros like myself could careless which route you go and have nothing to gain either way. If you were my client, I would present all options and give you my opinion which would work best for you. If it were Solar I would tell you. Last thing I would ever recommend to anyone is a Hybrid System. You gain nothing at higher cost. The only person gaining anything is the person who sold it to you and keeps gaining returns with battery replacement.

He doesn't have my contact info and I am not selling anything. As most will note from reading my posts I generally talk about SolarEdge, and clearly I own an Outback. I could not care less what OP purchases. But there are many people that have different views than Sunking, particularly that a bymodal is effective. It is not going to run everything in your home but is a damn nice system when configured right and expectations are around what it can and can't do.
This is SolarPanelTalk forum not BackupPowerForum or OffGridInTheWoodsAllTheTime forum, so most discussions are going to be around Solar.

I agree that for offgrid a generator and inverter/charger are required. For ongrid if you want to live with all your toys including AC, and cook a turkey in the electric oven when the grid is down, get a generator.
If however you have frequent outages (frequent is to be defined by homeowner) and just want some things like refridgerator, water pump, internet, some lights, as well as to offset your power when the grid IS working, then bimodal is a good fit. A generator could be a part of the equation but not necisarily.

If you live in an area without net metering and want to go solar, then bimodal is the only fit. There is no other way to go solar if there is no net metering.
If you have zero backfeed requirements like in HI, bimodal is the best option (only other option is off grid)

bimodal batteries sit there waiting for something to do, yes but so would the generator.

[Sunking]

bimodal batteries sit there waiting for something to do, yes but so would the generator.

LPG does not need replaced if not used. You are vested, that makes you biased automatically.

[jflorey2]

What you need to understand many of the people responding to you like Butch, Amy, and Jeffory have vested interest in solar and selling you something.

You are, as usual, incorrect.

[gmanInPA]

For the record, I own a hybrid/grid-interactive system and am quite happy with it (other than some nuisances with the controls). I also have a PV element to my system. I think there are valid reasons for doing so - I just can't count financial benefits among them. When I started to research this, like a lot of prospects, I didn't understand that a generator would be necessary as part of such a strategy. Forums like this are helpful to people searching out systems because you can learn a lot about what you may (or may not) be getting into.

Personally - for my values - which are NOT primarily-driven, I would not choose a grid-tied system. Mostly because it would burn my arse to have all that PV sitting there in a grid-down situation with no meaningful way to use anything beyond a convenience outlet. I can respect that people who have done this for a long time might scoff at using such a system, but there are many reasons people want solar and there is no requirement that every one of those reasons make financial sense.

[Sunking]

You are, as usual, incorrect.

Nah you are vested.

[jflorey2]

Nah you are vested.

in what way, O omniscient one?

[RedDenver]

If the economics worked, pros would do it. Fact is generator with UPS is far less expensive and more reliable. To do it your way requires a large set of batteries that need constant replacement.The initial cost of a large battery bank, solar, maintenance, and replacement cost are much higher cost and less reliable. Been doing this professionally for over 35 years. As a professional we use the most cost effective and reliable approach.

Haven't the economics of solar power changed substantially in just the last few years? If the OP is really interested in the "best" system, decide what's important to you and do the math.

[inetdog]

Nah you are vested.

-- Mod note:
Fortunately, although it can be used pejoratively, "vested" is not considered a derogatory term. But don't let the name calling escalate.
Same for "omniscient".