Grape Solar?

[inetdog]

I just read through the specs for the Grape 100W Model # GS-S-100-TS and the Grape 100W model #GS-S-100-Fab36 directly from Grapes Website. Nowhere did I see ANYTHING about positive or negative grounding. Now I guess the fact that they sell 2 diferent 100 watt models might suggest that one is + and the other is -, but why wouldn't it be in the specs and how the hell would I know. Well any panel could be positive ground for all I know when ordering it. Maybe I'm just tired but I swear there is no mention of it.

Good Night,
Green

I recall (but cannot locate again) a review stating the the newer Grape panels are now negative ground instead of positive ground. That may be true, which would still be unfortunate, or it may simple be a misinterpretation of the fact that neither side of the panel is grounded.

If either side of the panel output is grounded (actually connected to the frame), you can kiss the idea of putting them in series goodbye.

Unless, of course, you connect a negative ground panel in series with a positive ground panel to produce a center grounded system.

[terryangst]

website

Good morning Green. The reference to positive ground was found on the Home Depot site. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...1#.UDth06PF-So


Outstanding electrical performance under high temperature and weak light environments
Can withstand snow and wind loads greater than 30 lbs/ft2
Unique frame design for easy installation
Rigorous quality control to meet the highest international standards
Has Black Frame
This panel works best when paired with a positive ground capable charge controller
Positive and Negative leads equipped with MC4 connectors.
MFG Brand Name : Grape Solar
MFG Model # : GS-S-100-TS
MFG Part # : GS-S-100-TS

I should have cited the URL before.
Terry

[russ]

Meaningless statements - advertising baloney that all can equally well say

Outstanding electrical performance under high temperature and weak light environments
Can withstand snow and wind loads greater than 30 lbs/ft2
Unique frame design for easy installation
Rigorous quality control to meet the highest international standards
Has Black Frame

MFG Brand Name : Grape Solar

[green]

The reference to positive ground was found on the Home Depot site.

-This panel works best when paired with a positive ground capable charge controller

See this is my problem I have with Grape then. The Positive Ground thing is "refrenced" in the description, and not mentioned in the actual specs on their website. I think it would be worth mentioning don't you?

Also I don't like this wording"works best". WTH that isn't even saying this is a positve grounded panel, it just works best with positive grounded equiptment.

That all being said, I still might buy one of the negative grounded units #GS-S-100-Fab36. Lol

[terryangst]

See this is my problem I have with Grape then. The Positive Ground thing is "refrenced" in the description, and not mentioned in the actual specs on their website. I think it would be worth mentioning don't you?

Also I don't like this wording"works best". WTH that isn't even saying this is a positve grounded panel, it just works best with positive grounded equiptment.

That all being said, I still might buy one of the negative grounded units #GS-S-100-Fab36. Lol

Yes, very vague Green. It seems that the Fab36 is a good price in the 12v range. I'm having a hard time measuring the output of the one I have. Waiting for a Morningstar ProStar 30 Controller to come in so I can get an idea of how many amps it is charging. Seems like I do a lot of things the wrong way with this hobby. Oh well, kids just get less when I kick off.

[inetdog]

Also I don't like this wording"works best". WTH that isn't even saying this is a positve grounded panel, it just works best with positive grounded equiptment.
Lol

I second the notion. Unless the positive side of the panel is bonded to the frame, there would be no interaction one way or another with using a positive grounded Inverter or CC. And when they say "positive ground capable", they are, I think, implying that it will end up being positive grounded whether you want it that way or not!

And again, do NOT plan on putting either of these panels in a series string!

[green]

And again, do NOT plan on putting either of these panels in a series string!

Why not the negative grounded one. Don't confuse me!! lol I thought negative ground was the way to go for simplicity of other components.

I am actually considering this panel for a single panel system use anyways, but I like to learn as much as possible at all times.(Drives my wife nuts)

[inetdog]

Why not the negative grounded one. Don't confuse me!! lol I thought negative ground was the way to go for simplicity of other components.

I am actually considering this panel for a single panel system use anyways, but I like to learn as much as possible at all times.(Drives my wife nuts)

Draw the diagram:
One panel, negative ground, frame connected to mounting rack. So far, no problem.
Now set second panel in midair and connect it in series with first panel. You will measure the + DC output voltage of panel 1 on the frame of panel 2.
Now attach panel 2 to the mounting rack so that its frame is grounded. You have now shorted out panel 1 (no harm to it, but no power from it either!)
Your output from the "series string" is always just the output of the top panel.

[KRenn]

So they claim 18% efficiency and 10 year warranty. 2nd tier mean good for hobbyist? Since it comes from Home Depot, I'd risk a bit more simply for the ease of return should something go wrong.

Home Depot will tell you to go talk to the manufacturer, who likely won't be around very much longer considering that even massive Chinese companies are currently struggling. With the way panels are priced, I'd pay just a little bit more to get panels from established companies like Sharp, Schuco, Kyocera, Centrosolar and others.

[green]

Draw the diagram:
One panel, negative ground, frame connected to mounting rack. So far, no problem.
Now set second panel in midair and connect it in series with first panel. You will measure the + DC output voltage of panel 1 on the frame of panel 2.
Now attach panel 2 to the mounting rack so that its frame is grounded. You have now shorted out panel 1 (no harm to it, but no power from it either!)
Your output from the "series string" is always just the output of the top panel.

Your diagram is a bit confusing. Probably better said like this. In series + goes to - but if a two panels are bonded to thier frames you will in essence be paralelling one of the poles when you ground them both together. Right?

But the specs don't say about the #GS-S-100-Fab36(the not positive grounded one) being a frame bonded ground.

[green]

Home Depot will tell you to go talk to the manufacturer, who likely won't be around very much longer considering that even massive Chinese companies are currently struggling. With the way panels are priced, I'd pay just a little bit more to get panels from established companies like Sharp, Schuco, Kyocera, Centrosolar and others.

Cant afford and wouldn't pay $300+ for a 100W panel. And everything I'm finding is in the 200+ watt range and you need to buy 28 of them to get a good price.

[inetdog]

Your diagram is a bit confusing. Probably better said like this. In series + goes to - but if a two panels are bonded to thier frames you will in essence be paralelling one of the poles when you ground them both together. Right?

But the specs don't say about the #GS-S-100-Fab36(the not positive grounded one) being a frame bonded ground.

The drawing would be far less confusing if I actually drew it. I am graphically challenged, so respect my disability.

The specs do not mention a negative frame ground, so it might be OK, but the specs on the older panels did not specifically mention the positive ground either AFAIK.
There have been a few reviews that describe the new panels as negative ground, but that would be such a bad design decision coming from the positive ground fiasco that Grape probably did not do it. I will gratefully accept measurements from someone who actually has one of the new panels.

[Kebast]

12 volt not worth it

Cant afford and wouldn't pay $300+ for a 100W panel. And everything I'm finding is in the 200+ watt range and you need to buy 28 of them to get a good price.

After some extensive searching, I've found it really isn't worth it to buy 100 Watt (or similar) panels. The 200+ grid tie panels are about the same price. Requires a more expensive controller, but expands your options quite a bit.

Thanks for the nice discussion on this topic all!

[russ]

Solar Power System comes complete with everything you need to rack-mount the 22 solar panels on your roof. Phone calls to Grape Solar during business hours are answered by real people. Helpful and knowledgeable engineers can provide guidance during the purchasing process and clearly explain product features and capabilities.

Is that supposed to be special? Links are generally not allowed - especially from 1st time posters

[KrystleGrafton]

In Arizona you can buy that same size system WITH install, and pay less out of pocket then what Costco is charging for that 5K kit, on top of that, you'll get better panels and a professional installation to boot.


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