Help identifying the type of mounting hardware for PV panels

[oliidx]

Hi Everyone,

I need help with identifying the type of mounting hardware for these PV panels that are using a a rail-less system.
They were installed in 2011 during the house build but this original installed is no longer available, and I do not have more information because the house changed ownership several times since then and I think the system has not been maintained for a while now.
I heard they are from Chinese manufacture and the manufacturer was bankrupt, and the tool to disassemble the panels does not seem to be common or easy to find.

Resized_20210804_084019.jpeg
Resized_20210804_132343.jpeg
If you can recognize the make and possibly model of these panel, that will be useful information to me.
The system needs to be dissembled because a number of microinverters are out of commission. I would prefer to purchase the tool if I can find it, otherwise I understand the rods will need to be cut and the panels installed on a rail system.

I would appreciate your insight if you have any to identify these panels.

Thank you!

[solarix]

Early version of ZEP panels? ZEP came up with this style of rail-less mounting and talked several hapless panel makers into using it.
Another example of micro inverter unreliability...

[oliidx]

Thanks for your note. It looks like the same philosophy but it is not quite the same system that I can find online thus far.
Anyone has an idea for a possible resource to get tools to service the system by any chance?

imagejpeg_0.jpg

Thank you!

[brycenesbitt]

What's wrong with the system? Are you planning to protect the wiring from additional UV degradation?

[foo1bar]

I would go to the building department for the city/town/county/whatever - the AHJ ( "Authority Having Jurisdiction") - and get the building plans / permits that were filed for this house. There's a good chance that has details about what was used.
Or possibly it will have the name of one or more of the installers. And you can try to find them and see if they remember what was the brand name for the mounting system.

I can't tell from the pictures what the connection is between the panels.
It looks like maybe there could be threaded rods going the whole width of the panel, tying one to the next to the next. And if that's it, then maybe there's something at each end that you can turn to unthread the connection.

Or maybe they're just short connectors. that you see almost the whole thing in those little holes.

It looks like there's a ~1/8" space between the panels where those connectors are - small enough that you could fit a special wrench into. Or a piece of steel that you've ground into a wrench-like shape...

I'd probably take a lot more pictures of the connections - see if I can tell what's going on with them.



Good luck

[oliidx]

Thanks for your notes. Here are some more info and intermediate findings:

In the system it appears that half the micro-inverters are shot and need to be replaced.
Good point about going to track down the permits, not easy for me to explorer that right now but I will keep it on the list.

From what I gathered, I believe these panels were manufacturer by Suntech Power, and marketed by Akeena Solar/ Andalay/ Westinghouse. It seems there has been a couple of generations of fasteners, I am not certain this is v1 or v2 but probably v2 here.
Regarding tools, there appears to be a couple: a wrench and a longer rod with a female hex end. The wrench would fit between the 2 panels and the rod is used through the width of the panel to tighten the rod from the side using an hex on the end of the rod/slice.

[brycenesbitt]

Suntech Power, and marketed by Akeena Solar/ Andalay

This might be your installation manual. You should definitely try to pry out one of the microinverters, then call an installer to see if they're on the Enphase recall/service bulletin list. If
so you may get the entire upgrade done with help. As far as I can tell those are Enphase M250's under each of those panels.

https://www.ladpw.org/bsd/lib/fp/Sma...on%20Guide.pdf

The good parts (the forum won't accept the entire manual):
Andalay Sloped Roof Installation Guide Excerpt.pdf
If someone else can post the entire guide here for archive, it may help someone else in the future....

[oliidx]

Thanks for posting the manual, this is a good reference. The micro-inverters in my system are M190 and the system a bit older than the one listed in the manual, but this is along the same lines.
I will try to get a wrench and disassemble one panel when I have the chance.

I found another manual of the same vintage: http://pdf.lowes.com/installationgui...22_install.pdf

If anyone finds a manual of an earlier version of around 2010, this may be useful as well.

Unfortunately, this system does not seems very practical for servicing as all modules are attached together, so this is labor intensive.
It may be difficult to find a contractor willing to service the system as is.

[brycenesbitt]

If you would, upload that manual here, in case Lowes decides to reorganize their website?

Maybe take some pictures from above the array, seeing if you can get to the wires for the M190 microinverters.
Maybe post a picture?

And check with a Solar installer who does warranty work. Some of those early Microinverters are part of a free upgrade program:
this could literally be someone else's problem to figure out.

[brycenesbitt]

It looks like with easy bolts, the entire array... all the panels.... could be released and then carefully jacked up.
The vendor had a tool with steps on it for that exact purpose.

If you only have one row of these, perhaps you can build the equivalent of a sawhorse, and get a few people to help get the entire array up
on it, then access the dead microinverters. Just hope there is no big wind

[oliidx]

If you would, upload that manual here, in case Lowes decides to reorganize their website?

Maybe take some pictures from above the array, seeing if you can get to the wires for the M190 microinverters.
Maybe post a picture?

And check with a Solar installer who does warranty work. Some of those early Microinverters are part of a free upgrade program:
this could literally be someone else's problem to figure out.

I have attached the manual to the forum post.
Just curious if you have any suggestion to find an installer that would be willing to work on a warranty repair on this old style of mounting system?
Note that either Enphase will provide free replacement for the inverters while under warranty provided they can perform some assessment/troubleshooting through Envoy, or they propose an upgrade program for a fee, for this system, it costs 1700usd in material. In either case, the installer will charge for the labor.
I think it is possible to service the system as is, it may be a little more combersome that standard railing systems. There are 2 rows of panels.

[brycenesbitt]

Just curious if you have any suggestion to find an installer that would be willing to work on a warranty repair on this old style of mounting system?

Post on NextDoor Neighbor.

[PVAndy]

We just did a removal reinstall of those type panels. We couldn't get the bolts to loosen so we cut them between panels. Replaced all the racking with an Ironridge rail based system

[oliidx]

We just did a removal reinstall of those type panels. We couldn't get the bolts to loosen so we cut them between panels. Replaced all the racking with an Ironridge rail based system

This is certainly an option but I was hoping to avoid having to install a racking system until say the next reroof.
I guess the cost varies for all the system but I assume the cost is in the thousands to upgrade the mounting system
.
Can I ask the challenge when trying to loosen the bolts, did you try to use the wrench or that did not work or you did not have it?

andalay_wrench.jpg
Do you think trying to use a socket wrench extension(s) from the side to loosen the bolts by the hex side may have been possible?


I am not at the system at the moment so I will try it later on when I get a chance but if you can share some additional details, that will be helpful.

[brycenesbitt]

I guess the cost varies for all the system but I assume the cost is in the thousands to upgrade the mounting system

Racking hardware is cheap.
Labor is expensive.

Have you tried removing the bolts on the panels?
Do you have more photos?
How about just lifting the ENTIRE ARRAY up at once, setting it on temporary blocks, then replacing the inverters
and lowering it back down?