Building Reserve and Using KWH

[bcroe]

The mini split R410A inverter driven compressor technology has such a long list of
improvements over what proceeded it, it ought to be replacing equipment (where
applicable) on a huge scale. But there seems to be some resistance in the US HVAC
industry to them. I am doing some volunteer work on a century old solid concrete
mansion, now on the nat register. I just got the job of an extensive energy audit of all
the buildings. Have not started yet, but high on my hit list is a huge old AC unit sitting
on an intermediate roof, to supplement some rooms in the steam heat main building.

These units run 450psi high side, 240psi low side, more than double my R12 stuff.

My place has been highly experimental, but it feels like solutions to all main issues
have been found. Perhaps once all my HVAC equipment is updated and the rest of
the panels are remounted, it will be finished. Just what is the right amount of annual
generation is hard to say, because winter weather is so variable. Bruce Roe

[Ampster]

For most folks - not Bruce - rather than looking for ways to utilize overproduction, some might think it might be better yet to size the equipment so that the excess production isn't generated in the first place.

I don't get the impression that this project has been completed yet. I has been going for at least 15 months with a stated goal of being Net Zero. I think it is too early to say that long term there will be excess production.

[frankge]

jumping on the minisplit bandwagon. In Tampa we run AC 24x7 in the warmer months which is a good part of the year. I installed a 12000btu Pioneer minisplit for our master bedroom which allows me to basically turn off the new 2 stage heatpump with ECM blower I just installed. That along with a heatpump water heater has given me a net-zero electric consumption. They raised our rates and electric s still cheap compared to some of you - 14 cents per Kwh, but I've already seen it raise from 12 cents. Btw the cost to install the minisplit myself end to end was about $800.00

[J.P.M.]

Sounds like a good plan to utilize some of that 4 gWhrs of energy your system produces over and above your consumption..

For most folks - not Bruce - rather than looking for ways to utilize overproduction, some might think it might be better yet to size the equipment so that the excess production isn't generated in the first place.

[ButchDeal]

Sounds like a good plan to utilize some of that 4 gWhrs of energy your system produces over and above your consumption..

I think you mean 4MWhs not 4GWhs

4000kWh = 4MWh
4000MWh = 4GWh

[Ampster]

Sounds like a good plan to utilize some of that 4 MWhrs of energy your system produces over and above your consumption..

[bcroe]

Meantime the car shop is well along in the installation of a 16,000 BTU mini-split
heat pump, pictures soon. This 15RLS3H has a -25F degree operational capability,
achieved with some internal supplemental resistive heat at the very lowest outside
temps. This luxury will attempt to keep inside temps at least 40 F year around, as
opposed to just being really cold in Feb. This will make quick jobs (oil change) easy
and a quick blast from the propane furnace will get me 65 F for a transmission
overhaul. The occasional, automatic use of some resistance heat at extreme lows
is a huge improvement over using it continuously and manually.

The shop is 1080 sq ft, with basic level insulation. Bruce Roe

Here is the state of the 15RLS3H installation in the car shop, the inside work is
already finished. My house mini splits past winter left me with a generation
surplus of over 4000 KWH, so this winter will attempt to use some of it up on
this semi insulated building, which used to sit with no heat in winter. Damaging
levels of ice and snow slide off the high metal roof, so a small roof/shield will
be placed a foot or so above this equipment for protection.

The 15RLS3H will be the main energy experiment for the next winter. I do not see
it as being in its sweet spot, trying to maintain 40 F in a substantial area with
outside temps down to -25F, so it will be a test. It has more capacity than my
first minis, and the heater supplement will take energy, but nothing like a pure
resistance heater. Bruce Roe

RLS3H1.JPG

[Ampster]

..........but many of us were not happy to see suggestions of here putting them on some of the best farm land, in direct violation of existing zoning......

In California there are a number of large commercial solar farms in the desert. At other locations I have observed smaller installations on hillside pasture land and adjacent to flat farm land in the Central Valley. In the case of the hillside pasture land I occasionally see sheep grazing under the panels. In the Central Valley water is an issue and not all land appears to be utilized for farming for reasons that may relate to water allocations or cost of transporting water. I don;t know what the zoning issues are in California with respect to agriculturally zoned land either.

In looking at some of these smaller installations I also notice that the panel angles are sometimes closer to horizontal than I would have suspected. On further research I understand that the power density per acre can be increased by using these lower angles and thereby reducing the spacing between arrays. This appears to result in a configuration that produces more AC power per acre. I would guess that these systems run higher AC to DC ratios.to optimize system performance. . I can understand that if someone looked only at the array configuration it could be argued that they are suboptimal. However from a system standpoint (array, inverter and land), they may be optimizing the ROI.

[bcroe]

The first results are in for the attempt to expand commercial solar in IL. Those I
reviewed were in the 2MW to 20MW (AC rating) range. Of 900 project submissions,
100 were approved, I do not yet know more details of the approval process. I do not
yet know of anything close by, but many of us were not happy to see suggestions of
here putting them on some of the best farm land, in direct violation of existing zoning
Comprehensive Plans, by some sort of slight of hand. And I was additionally unhappy
to see proposals where clouds and snow are so prominent. Bruce Roe

[Ampster]

You guys ought to just stick to the facts. Bruce Roe

The facts are that large scale solar farms average a DC to AC ratio of 1:25 to 1.That number has been increasing over the years. I don't recall your AC to DC ratio but I believe it is greater than 1 to 1.

Perhaps the misunderstanding is whether we are talking about optimizing the array or optimizing the entire system. I won't speak for J.P.M. but he consistently refers to arrays (the panels) and I interpret your discussion on this thread to mean the entire system, including the panels, inverters and racking.
EDIT
As you point out in the following post, most commercial solar farms are described by their AC rating. My point in the above is that an array centric methodology is not always used by professionals to optimize systems.

[bcroe]

You guys ought to just stick to the facts. Bruce Roe

[Ampster]

I agree with Bruce because he is optimizing his system. Perhaps you might want to try to attack the argument instead of attacking someone else.

[J.P.M.]

Indeed it is the system as a whole that is optimized. It is easy for someone to cherry pick the individual components output and try to infer that your system is suboptimal.

Ampster, if you think I'm cherry picking Bruce's array, you're exhibiting an example of your ignorance of the basics of PV and solar energy in general, and I have no inclination to instruct you.

Bruce's array is optimized for what his goals and intentions are. Big AMEN on that. I share more than a bit of what appear to be his eccentricities.

Bruce and I do not share all opinions about the best way to apply solar energy.

IMO, Bruce's array is most likely not something that a knowledgeable PV designer would come up with in most any common semirural, grid tie application if cost effectiveness or optimal use of materials or resources were design goals.

You want to be helpful, buy a decent textbook and find out what solar energy is really all about before you criticize and misconstrue and attempt to twist what I write. You might be able to contribute something technical rather than repeat what you read or heard someplace that fits your view of things. You also might begin to understand some of what Bruce and I respectfully disagree about rather than more of the same blather that doesn't contribute much of anything to the discourse except that you agree with someone and disagree with someone else for unspecified reasons.

[bcroe]

Indeed it is the system as a whole that is optimized. It is easy for someone to cherry pick the
individual components output and try to infer that your system is suboptimal.

Oh, critical analysis is welcomed. If I can not answer that, its time to go back to the drawing
board. Have had to explain that to some new guys on the job. I have stories....
Bruce Roe

[Ampster]

......

Better to design a PV system that does well every day, sunny or not. A close look at my actual numbers reveals more output on EVERY day than a pure south facing array. My original south facing array would have much deeper valleys than this
chart.

Indeed it is the system as a whole that is optimized. It is easy for someone to cherry pick the individual components output and try to infer that your system is suboptimal.