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  • LG Neon R's Finally Listed on US Website

    It looks like the new LG Neon R series will be released here in the US very soon. Product literature starting to hit the US website:

    http://www.lg.com/us/business/solar-...cover/lg-neonr
    http://www.lg.com/us/business/solar-panel/products
    http://www.lg.com/us/business/downlo...02151_2831.pdf

    Will they be priced below $1/W to compete with Panasonic's offering?

  • #2
    The Neon R's look amazing for what it's worth. With the looks, higher wattage per square inch, and a more normal voltage profile it seems more premium than Panasonic to me.

    Comment


    • #3
      It does look like a very nice panel -- always liked the rear contact design. Not sure what the maximum wattage will be in the all black (black backsheet) design. But it's concerning that all of their literature refers's to the "R-series" as a "luxury panel."

      The only pricing I've found online in the US has been ~$2/watt. With volume from a distributor you might get down to $1.5/watt. Panasonic's can be had for $1/watt or less. And the LG Neon 2 for $0.80/watt or less. Other reputable brands (Canadian Solar, Trina, Hanwha, etc) for $0.50-$0.80/watt.

      The Panasonic or LG Neon2 at 330/335W is nearly as efficient, and potentially much less expensive. The Neon R has a better warranty and better thermal coefficient that the Neon 2 (and it looks better). But the Panasonic has a ever so slightly better warranty (than the R) and better thermals.

      With Panasonic ramping up MFG at the new Buffalo, NY site, hopefully Panasonic prices will come down further. Having a domestic MFG site may also enable them the to avoid import tariffs if that bill ever went through.

      Since the Neon R is a 60-cell design with a normal 60-cell voltage profile it will work with Enphase Micros unlike the Panasonics which require SolarEdge or string. IMHO, I like the higher voltage from the 96-cell Panny's as my optimizers are always stepping down the voltage rather than up (less work?) and there's plenty of voltage to start the inverter early and keep it on longer -- though the actual production from these "tails" is pretty insignificant.

      All in all, both are very nice panels, neither is terribly cost effective unless you need a super high efficiency panel due to limited roof space. It should also be noted the R-series is slightly larger than a normal 60-cell panel though LG claims that this will be their new standard size going forward. But is the LG R worth potentially 1.5 to 2.0x more than the Panasonic? Not to me, but given the better LG brand recognition in the US, and the potential all black design, some customers will be willing to pay the premium. When R-series was launched in Australia there was talk of targeting the product directly against SunPower -- and pricing it accordingly.

      IFF (and a big if at that) the R-series is priced the same as the Panasonic then IMHO LG's probably the better choice. I'm not sure what to make of my Panasonic's yet. So far so good, but it turns out I have a lot more shading than I realized (trees grow quite a bit in the past two years and lots of dense foliage) and we had a really wet and cloudy Summer here in NJ. So my yields are way down compared to what I had modeled. I was planning for approx 80-90% of PVWatts/SE Design Tool -- but so far this summer it's been more like 60-70%. From what I can tell, everything (SE/Panny) has been working well, but the clouds and trees have had a huge impact in July & Aug.

      Back in June I peaked at 75.613kWh/day (6.193kWh/kW) from my 12.2kW system and have never come close since -- of course the system was brand new as well -- and the trees didn't have full leaves yet. I'll give it a year or so, but will probably need to get the trees trimmed back significantly.

      https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=58372

      Best,
      Jonathan

      Comment


      • #4
        LG had a 365W with white back sheet, 345W in all black on display at SPI. I suspect 345W is the largest in black. I was shocked how neat/unique it looked with a white back sheet - not sure if that would translate to a nicer looking roof or not.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by adoublee View Post
          LG had a 365W with white back sheet, 345W in all black on display at SPI. I suspect 345W is the largest in black. I was shocked how neat/unique it looked with a white back sheet - not sure if that would translate to a nicer looking roof or not.
          Their new bifacial panels are also very nice. The LG390N2T was gorgeous, and would make a great parking shade/carport panel. You'd still get 10% or so of the light diffused through the clear parts of the panel, and you get the benefit of any reflected light.

          Interesting claim by Panda on their bifacial panels (if true) - they claimed that installing them upside down resulted in only a 10% loss of total power output.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post

            Their new bifacial panels are also very nice. The LG390N2T was gorgeous, and would make a great parking shade/carport panel. You'd still get 10% or so of the light diffused through the clear parts of the panel, and you get the benefit of any reflected light.

            Interesting claim by Panda on their bifacial panels (if true) - they claimed that installing them upside down resulted in only a 10% loss of total power output.
            Seems like everybody is showing a bifacial - but are they a product that can actually be bought short of a container or special production run purchase? Seems like a tech that is still waiting to break loose - but best idea for all involved is keeping a metal frame around them (except for maybe the most aesthetic canopies).

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by adoublee View Post
              LG had a 365W with white back sheet, 345W in all black on display at SPI. I suspect 345W is the largest in black. I was shocked how neat/unique it looked with a white back sheet - not sure if that would translate to a nicer looking roof or not.
              If an array is < 6" or so off a roof, and parallel to it as is common, I'm not sure how the back of a panel would make much difference in the appearance of the array.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by adoublee View Post

                Seems like everybody is showing a bifacial - but are they a product that can actually be bought short of a container or special production run purchase? Seems like a tech that is still waiting to break loose - but best idea for all involved is keeping a metal frame around them (except for maybe the most aesthetic canopies).
                For most residential applications where the arrays are roof mounted, the underside of a panel will see little, and I mean very little, irradiance, like a few % at most of what the front side of a panel in the same location will see. For those applications, bifacial panels are not worth a premium.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
                  For most residential applications where the arrays are roof mounted, the underside of a panel will see little, and I mean very little, irradiance, like a few % at most of what the front side of a panel in the same location will see. For those applications, bifacial panels are not worth a premium.
                  Yeah, 90% of applications out there get no benefit from bifacial. Which means they won't see the same economies-of-scale that traditional opaque-backpad panels will see.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
                    Yeah, 90% of applications out there get no benefit from bifacial. Which means they won't see the same economies-of-scale that traditional opaque-backpad panels will see.
                    IMO bifacial panels could be a good fit for a flat white roof with tilted panels. Unfortunately those type of roofs are usually commercial or industrial type and not something a home owner would have.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                      IMO bifacial panels could be a good fit for a flat white roof with tilted panels. Unfortunately those type of roofs are usually commercial or industrial type and not something a home owner would have.
                      Perhaps, but the probably small to non - existent additional output from bifacial panels would need to be carefully weighed against the increased initial cost, and BTW, increased cleaning cost, which while not double, would still increase. If the cost increment == zero, it might be worth it.

                      What escapes most folks is how little additional irradiance or, on an annual level, how much insolation of any sort actually falls on the backside of a front surface only solar panel that's optimally oriented, as the mostly diffuse nature of that energy as well as its relatively high angles of incidence - all of which conspire to make the useful quantity of harvestable energy smaller yet, a good portion of the time making it about small enough to be about unmeasurable. I haven't seen any data on pyranometer output when the device is placed on the backide of a solar panel of various orientations, but I'd like to. If I get curious or pissed off enough, I may put my time and money where my mouth is, built a test fixture and some data on my own.

                      Unless the price differential == zero, or I see some believable, certified data from some source(s) with no skin in the game, I'm calling B.S. on bifacial panels.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                        If I get curious or pissed off enough, I may put my time and money where my mouth is, built a test fixture and some data on my own.

                        Unless the price differential == zero, or I see some believable, certified data from some source(s) with no skin in the game, I'm calling B.S. on bifacial panels.
                        That the existence of bifacial (not biracial as autocorrect suggests) panels could piss you off makes you a biased observer IMO. There are more than standard rooftop users in the market, and they can provide a noticeable level of boost. There can also be advantages to a glass backing that all bifacials have but can be on standard resi panels as well.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
                          Unless the price differential == zero, or I see some believable, certified data from some source(s) with no skin in the game, I'm calling B.S. on bifacial panels.
                          No worries. They are a good option here for the great many carports going up in and around San Diego - cars are full of reflective surfaces, and direct a significant amount of light onto the underside of the panels. But for most applications, as I mentioned, not too much benefit.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                            Perhaps, but the probably small to non - existent additional output from bifacial panels would need to be carefully weighed against the increased initial cost, and BTW, increased cleaning cost, which while not double, would still increase. If the cost increment == zero, it might be worth it.

                            What escapes most folks is how little additional irradiance or, on an annual level, how much insolation of any sort actually falls on the backside of a front surface only solar panel that's optimally oriented, as the mostly diffuse nature of that energy as well as its relatively high angles of incidence - all of which conspire to make the useful quantity of harvestable energy smaller yet, a good portion of the time making it about small enough to be about unmeasurable. I haven't seen any data on pyranometer output when the device is placed on the backide of a solar panel of various orientations, but I'd like to. If I get curious or pissed off enough, I may put my time and money where my mouth is, built a test fixture and some data on my own.

                            Unless the price differential == zero, or I see some believable, certified data from some source(s) with no skin in the game, I'm calling B.S. on bifacial panels.
                            Oh I never said the additional output would be worth the cost. I just agreed with jflorey2 that the percentage of useful installs would be 10% or less which IMO would fall into the flat commercial roof type install.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
                              No worries. They are a good option here for the great many carports going up in and around San Diego - cars are full of reflective surfaces, and direct a significant amount of light onto the underside of the panels. But for most applications, as I mentioned, not too much benefit.
                              Understood. But if a car is under a carport, and the car's roof, hood and rear deck are convex to the sky, for starters, being under a cover, how much sunlite do you suspect a car's mostly curved, mostly horizontal surfaces will see in the first place, and secondly, how much of the solar beam radiation will be at a reasonably small angle of incidence that would probably be necessary to reflect light onto the underside of a panel. Thirdly, since a mildly to mostly convex (to the sky) surface will diffuse the beam and to a lesser degree the diffuse solar radiation (which fourthly, I'd expect a large portion of the car incident radiation to be), how much of that scattered solar will hit the underside of a panel.

                              I'd suggest not much, but again, I've seen no objective, third party data, although, in all honesty, I've not looked for any such application specific data.

                              From what/how you write, it reads like you may know of some. Do you know of any ? If so, care to share/point in a direction ?

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