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  • #46


    This uses the same username and password as the one from https://monitor.us.sunpower.com but provides more data (at a panel level). I hope this helps.
    Last edited by SunEagle; 07-28-2019, 12:43 PM. Reason: removed the first website which is not a safe one.

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    • #47
      I also lost at least a year of max production and it played out like what I have read in here.
      First year good, 2nd year it drops quite a bit and then 3rd year....it's so low!
      Being able to see panel level data from the SP supervisor will help from now on as it was hard to pinpoint the problem until I had enough data.
      It will be interesting to see what the data shows going forward.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Elemental101
        I also lost at least a year of max production and it played out like
        what I have read in here. First year good, 2nd year it drops quite a bit and then 3rd year....it's so low!
        Being able to see panel level data from the SP supervisor will help from now on as it was hard to pinpoint
        the problem until I had enough data. It will be interesting to see what the data shows going forward.
        That complexity seems to have too many failure modes. Solar here has been running 6 years without a
        component failure, output hardly varies per the weather. Checks for failures are periodic, without any
        panel monitoring. Bruce Roe

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        • #49
          Originally posted by bcroe View Post

          That complexity seems to have too many failure modes. Solar here has been running 6 years without a
          component failure, output hardly varies per the weather. Checks for failures are periodic, without any
          panel monitoring. Bruce Roe
          You mean the microinverters are adding too much complexity to the overall system?

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Elemental101 View Post

            You mean the microinverters are adding too much complexity to the overall system?
            Those with all the communication requirements. Bruce Roe

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            • #51
              I've been warning about microinverters for years. After reading this thread, I rest my case....
              BSEE, R11, NABCEP, Chevy BoltEV, >2000kW installed

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              • #52
                I am just wondering what is typical output from the X22-360 panels. Since I just started monitoring the per panel stats, I am surprised to not seeing much past 280w per panel.
                Maybe that will improve during different sun angles in winter but I doubt it since I have never seen over the mid 60's kWh per day. I am now back in the high 50's since the microinverters were swapped. Maybe MI are more hassle but is there any other way to monitor on a per panel basis?

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                  FWIW, I believe the std. NEM agreement for residential hookups w/ SDG & E only talks about increasing array size up to 1 kW before a new agreement is triggered with no mention of inverter arrangement(s). I'd wonder however, if changeout of an old inverter w/no increase in either array or inverter capacity would trigger things like rapid shutdown requirements if the old arrangement got PTO prior to rapid shutdown requirements for example. I believe Jskeyes2 had 345 W panels, but I may be off on that one.
                  I am pretty sure that if you start overproducing, the city will notice.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Elemental101 View Post

                    I am pretty sure that if you start overproducing, the city will notice.
                    I believe that may be true in the case of systems that have received SGIP incentives. What the utility is concerned about in that case is people selling battery power back to the utility. I do know that PG&E has a process to track those cases. What I dont know is whether SDG&E or SCE has a process. In the case of regular NEM customers it would be more difficult since many could self consume some or all of their increased capacity.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Ampster View Post

                      I believe that may be true in the case of systems that have received SGIP incentives. What the utility is concerned about in that case is people selling battery power back to the utility. I do know that PG&E has a process to track those cases. What I dont know is whether SDG&E or SCE has a process. In the case of regular NEM customers it would be more difficult since many could self consume some or all of their increased capacity.
                      I wonder what would happen if I were to replace both my 20 yr old A/C units with low SEER ratings and all of a sudden my consumption drops significantly.
                      These are some of the things that not many people know the answers to.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Elemental101 View Post
                        ..........
                        These are some of the things that not many people know the answers to.
                        Some may know the answers but not willing to admit on a public forum that they are in violation of their NEM Agreement. In some cases it would just mean more paperwork to file for an increase. In other cases it might mean losing the benefits of NEM 1.0 and having to pay NBCs on NEM 2.0. I do know some people with SGIP arrangements and that agreement gives the utility the right to reverse credits for excess generation.

                        In some cases, the increased production may be masked by panel degradation of the original system. Also, as discuss often, human nature leads to more consumption especially if one buys an EV or their patterns of charging at home increase.
                        Last edited by Ampster; 09-02-2019, 11:29 AM.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Elemental101 View Post
                          I am just wondering what is typical output from the X22-360 panels. Since I just started monitoring the per panel stats, I am surprised to not seeing much past 280w per panel.
                          Maybe that will improve during different sun angles in winter but I doubt it since I have never seen over the mid 60's kWh per day. I am now back in the high 50's since the microinverters were swapped. Maybe MI are more hassle but is there any other way to monitor on a per panel basis?
                          You probably won't see 360 W/panel output too often, if at all, and then only briefly. I've got S.P 327's in a pretty good orientation with specs and design similar to the 360's but on a string inverter. About the best quasi steady state output I get after the string and under cloudless skies with a very clean array is about 0.88 of STC output or ~ 288 W/panel over any 5 minute period.

                          According to the published S.P. spec sheet I'm looking at, the micros that are paired with X360 Sunpower panels are rated for 320 W max (320/360 = 0.888). Depending on your array tilt and azimuth, I'd guess you max./panel output if things are running nominally to be ~ 320 W., but you won't see that very often. Maybe for a few minutes in spring on a chilly, windy and clear day on a mostly south facing panel.

                          I you get some irradiance enhancement from irradiance reflection off clouds on a partly cloudy day, you might get some clipping, but the loss in such cases is, for all practical purposes, not worth worrying about.

                          Your array's instantaneous output may or may not improve during winter depending mostly on instantaneous solar incidence angle, and to some extent on cell temp. - that temp. being partially f(ambient temp.).

                          Rule(s) of thumb (usually most accurate for measuring thumbs, marginal for most other things): A array slope > local latitude will generally improve winter instantaneous output and lower summer output. If your array's slope is < your latitude, instantaneous output will most likely be less in winter than summer. Often, best annual performance (most annual electricity production) will be from an array sloped at slightly less than local latitude and with a mostly equator facing azimuth.

                          Since you ask: Yes, there are other ways to monitor per panel output. I do them 1X/awhile, and I'm pretty sure Bruce and some others have their ways, but the methods (I use) are a real PITA requiring voltage measurements, and temp. measurements w/an IR thermometer.

                          I don't believe per panel monitoring is necessary, and certainly not worth what is, for me only, the reduction in array reliability (more failure points located in harsh environments such as a roof, and often with PITA accessibility and access/replacement costs - the KISS principle applies here).

                          I've got an as simple as possible array with a string inverter. After 2,146 days of continuous operation with no failures and no down time except for a couple of POCO power outages, I'll stick with keeping it simple.

                          FWIW, after close to 6 years of daily output monitoring and recording at 5 minute intervals, and also about 600+ measurements of total array instantaneous output and other parameters, including irradiance and weather variables at times of daily min. solar incidence angle when the sky is cloudless, I've convinced myself that per panel monitoring doesn't get me much in terms of useful information. Under quasi steady state clear skies, after adjusting for P.O.A irradiance, amb. temp. and wind vector at the array, my panels - which are quite similar to yours, produce expected output that I believe I can measure to very ~ +/- 1.0 %. without per panel monitoring. Details on request, just be careful what you ask for.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                            You probably won't see 360 W/panel output too often, if at all, and then only briefly. I've got S.P 327's in a pretty good orientation with specs and design similar to the 360's but on a string inverter. About the best quasi steady state output I get after the string and under cloudless skies with a very clean array is about 0.88 of STC output or ~ 288 W/panel over any 5 minute period.

                            According to the published S.P. spec sheet I'm looking at, the micros that are paired with X360 Sunpower panels are rated for 320 W max (320/360 = 0.888). Depending on your array tilt and azimuth, I'd guess you max./panel output if things are running nominally to be ~ 320 W., but you won't see that very often. Maybe for a few minutes in spring on a chilly, windy and clear day on a mostly south facing panel.

                            I you get some irradiance enhancement from irradiance reflection off clouds on a partly cloudy day, you might get some clipping, but the loss in such cases is, for all practical purposes, not worth worrying about.

                            Your array's instantaneous output may or may not improve during winter depending mostly on instantaneous solar incidence angle, and to some extent on cell temp. - that temp. being partially f(ambient temp.).

                            Rule(s) of thumb (usually most accurate for measuring thumbs, marginal for most other things): A array slope > local latitude will generally improve winter instantaneous output and lower summer output. If your array's slope is < your latitude, instantaneous output will most likely be less in winter than summer. Often, best annual performance (most annual electricity production) will be from an array sloped at slightly less than local latitude and with a mostly equator facing azimuth.

                            Since you ask: Yes, there are other ways to monitor per panel output. I do them 1X/awhile, and I'm pretty sure Bruce and some others have their ways, but the methods (I use) are a real PITA requiring voltage measurements, and temp. measurements w/an IR thermometer.

                            I don't believe per panel monitoring is necessary, and certainly not worth what is, for me only, the reduction in array reliability (more failure points located in harsh environments such as a roof, and often with PITA accessibility and access/replacement costs - the KISS principle applies here).

                            I've got an as simple as possible array with a string inverter. After 2,146 days of continuous operation with no failures and no down time except for a couple of POCO power outages, I'll stick with keeping it simple.

                            FWIW, after close to 6 years of daily output monitoring and recording at 5 minute intervals, and also about 600+ measurements of total array instantaneous output and other parameters, including irradiance and weather variables at times of daily min. solar incidence angle when the sky is cloudless, I've convinced myself that per panel monitoring doesn't get me much in terms of useful information. Under quasi steady state clear skies, after adjusting for P.O.A irradiance, amb. temp. and wind vector at the array, my panels - which are quite similar to yours, produce expected output that I believe I can measure to very ~ +/- 1.0 %. without per panel monitoring. Details on request, just be careful what you ask for.
                            Interesting for sure.
                            I guess time will tell if it was just a bad batch of these MI units or as you say, best to keep it simple which I do agree with.

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