Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Getting ready for panels

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Sunking View Post
    Yes, tinned with silver.
    I so miss the spacecraft wire. silver plate over copper, and teflon insulation. solders well, insulation is slick and never melts, lasts in a crimp, wonderful stuff.

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
      I so miss the spacecraft wire. silver plate over copper, and teflon insulation. solders well, insulation is slick and never melts, lasts in a crimp, wonderful stuff.
      Wow you would over dose on a few DOD Data Center jobs I have done. Like any Data Center is on raised floors and area under the raised floor is used as a Plenum to pump cold air up into equipment racks and keep the room cool. Cabling was split between overhead equipment ladder racks for signal I/0 cabling, and under the raised floor for both AC and DC Power. AC was conventional EMT with THHN-2 wire. Then directly under the Equipment line ups we put in Ladder rack anchored to the floor and then ran -48 VDC on the ladder rack. 750 MCM was used to Battery Distribution Frames (think of it like a huge Breaker Fuse Panel) and than 6 AWG to 1/0 to equipment racks.

      Now here is the part you will like. All the DC cable was Class H Super Flex, tinned silver, with teflon jacket. Thousands of feet of it all custom ordered and made. In Telephone Switching Offices they use a lot of coax, military grade silver center conductor and shield, with a Teflon Jacket and Insulator. Lot of ham radio operators use it if they can get their hands on it, and just abou tall coax connectors that require solder use silver plated. Yep silver is easy to solder and work with.

      For anyone wondering why Teflon cable jackets is used is because its temperature rating is extremely high and low smoke to be used in Plenums. Codes require any cable used in Plenums be Plenum rated. So if a fire starts it does not emit toxic smoke and gasses.

      MSEE, PE

      Comment


      • #18
        I'm glad y'all love working with plenum so much. Personally I hate it. God-awful stuff to work with.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Mike90250
          I so miss the spacecraft wire. silver plate over copper, and teflon insulation.
          Solders well, insulation is slick and never melts, lasts in a crimp, wonderful stuff.
          I do a lot of 22 gauge teflon signal wiring in cars, really cuts down the size of a cable. Also have limited
          larger stuff. Seems like its all silver plated. Pretty expensive, I may never buy any more. Bruce Roe


          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Sunking View Post

            Because this is in your future the instant you have a loose connection with 150 amps of current flowing. There is a damn good reason you cannot buy an appliance larger than 1800 watts designed to run at 120 volts. It would be to darn dangerous and the manufacture would be sued into bankruptcy replacing burned down houses and dead burnt bodies. That is why cooktops, hot water heaters, air conditioning, and oven run on 240 volts.

            3000 watts on 24 volt Inverter pulls 150/75 amps through an inverter. 3000 watts pulls 13 amps on 240 VAC. Your argument is a Red Herring. You buy a new Corvette, go to your Insurance agent and tell him you wil never go faster then 50 mph. So therefore he should not charge as much on premiums.
            I didn't want to interrupt that OP further so I brought it here. I hope this is proper.

            So.. scary stuff which begs the question: Why was I told (not here) to use a 300 amp fuse at the DC+ on my inverter? and why was I also told that 2 AWG on my battery terminals would be fine? To resolve the danger it would be best to replace with a 48v inverter? but that would eliminate 4 of my batteries (48/6=8) as I have no space for 4 additional. I may be able to squeeze 2 more in but that's it. The following image is the battery bank busbar I thought was tight, is it?..

            20170226_121130.jpg

            Sad face but thank you

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by -TX- View Post
              ............... The following image is the battery bank busbar I thought was tight, is it?..
              Great example of how NOT to wire a bus bar.

              The cable lug should be tight against the copper bar, with silver, copper, or anti-ox grease to improve the connection.
              using steel or stainless hardware looks good, but is introducing a lot of resistance and more contact points.
              My apologies if this is actually tinned copper nut, washer and bolt. This would be rare, as copper is nowhere near strong enough to torque well to have a
              low resistance connection. Lug bolted to copper bar is the secure way.


              Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
              || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
              || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

              solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
              gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by -TX- View Post
                Why was I told (not here) to use a 300 amp fuse at the DC+ on my inverter? and why was I also told that 2 AWG on my battery terminals would be fine?
                Who ever told you that is an idiot. Let's address the 2 AWG wire issue. The size of the wire determines how much current the wire can safely handle without over heating. The current depends on the size of the wire, the insulation type used, if it is in raceway or free air, and if it is ran with other conductors that carry current. The heat is additive.

                If you use 2 AWG with a high temperature insulation (90 degree C) in free air can handle up to 190 amps, and if you use 75 C insulation 140 amps. Run that same wire with two conductors, the other one needed to complete a circuit and that goes down to 100 amps. Put them in a raceway with other 2 AWG and you can go down to 60 amps.

                That is not the end of the story. Minimum wire size is determined by the breaker or fuse. So if you use a 300 amp fuse the absolute minimum using 90 degree insulation in free air is 2/0 AWG. Pair it with its brother and you must use a minimum of 300 MCM.

                #2 AWG on a 300 amp fuse is the words of an idiot. Let me guess, the Inverter manufacture?
                MSEE, PE

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

                  Great example of how NOT to wire a bus bar.
                  Mike I am not sure you are aware but you are showing another great example of how NOT to wire high current connections. Every termination shown uses a single hole Terminal.

                  Mike you know what I am talking about. I can take apart any one of those connections with out any tools. All I need is my bare hands. Grab any connector and give it a counter clockwise turn, and the nut will back right off. Even an accidental bump or gravity will do it in time. Once that happens all it take is a few 10's of amps and you have fire.

                  MSEE, PE

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Other than in a industrial setting, I see NO reason to use bus bars, and yes, you can spin the nut loose by wriggling the cable, and you have a mess.
                    Only a properly engineered battery bank layout (one string, maybe 2 parallel/diagonal strings in extreme cases) avoids many simple mishaps.
                    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      No, those nuts are NOT spinning loose. I'm a big dude and put a lot of muscle in insuring that would never happen. It's permanent until I deliver equal force to unscrew it and fit the terminator right against the busbar, as recommended. The reason I used a busbar is because i couldn't find a 4 hole 2awg, 1 hole 2/0awg connection bus. And it's fat, pure copper, that's gotta be good, right? If done right of course.

                      If that's the best you boys got , I'm a bit relieved. Will change that busbar and fuse rating pronto.

                      edit: And to 2/0 awg. I just spent some time on online calcs and they all indicate 2awg is fine, as well, but the most obvious thing I've learned on this board in the brief period I've been on it is this: Listen to the Sun King. Dudes got solar running through his veins.
                      Last edited by -TX-; 02-26-2017, 10:48 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Sadly, the issue you are not getting, is the steel nut and washer between the busbar and the lugs. That steel is high resistance compared to copper and it introduces 2 unneeded contact points that have finite resistance. Lug-Busbar vs Lug- washer -nut -busbar. Steel is 10x the electrical resistance of copper.
                        http://www.tibtech.com/conductivity.php

                        #2 cable is only rated to 115 amps. More than that, and you are asking for troubles,
                        https://lugsdirect.com/WireCurrentAm...ble-301-16.htm
                        Last edited by Mike90250; 02-26-2017, 11:51 PM.
                        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by -TX- View Post
                          edit: And to 2/0 awg. I just spent some time on online calcs and they all indicate 2awg is fine,.
                          Hold the bus. 2 AWG at what current? No way for 300 amps or even 200 amps.

                          Are you confusing #2 AWG and 2/0?
                          Last edited by Sunking; 02-27-2017, 10:44 AM.
                          MSEE, PE

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I got that loud and clear. If I remove the bottom nut and washer, and fasten the connector right tight to the copper busbar with a top nut I should be good. That shouldn't be an issue to do. I won't like it because to remove/replace/service the battery cables I'll need to remove the entire busbar but it is what it is. I'll deal with it.

                            Based on my watt-meter, I can't imagine more than 80~ amps flowing through to inverter.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by -TX- View Post
                              I got that loud and clear. If I remove the bottom nut and washer, and fasten the connector right tight to the copper busbar with a top nut I should be good. That shouldn't be an issue to do. I won't like it because to remove/replace/service the battery cables I'll need to remove the entire busbar but it is what it is. I'll deal with it.
                              Good, that's the best way, lug to copper.


                              Based on my watt-meter, I can't imagine more than 80~ amps flowing through to inverter.
                              Then put a 100a fuse, 2ga wire and you are safe.

                              Is it possible the vendor said 2/O wire (175A) and you heard 2ga ? Anyway, 2ga, 100A is good
                              Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                              || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                              || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                              solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                              gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Thank you two for your concerns. For your enjoyment
                                amazon.com/forum/-/Tx3R78C6HG4CCG1/ref=ask_ql_ql_al_hza?asin=B00DQC6Z6M
                                Last edited by Mike90250; 02-27-2017, 11:14 AM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X