City blocking solar install by home owner - legal?

[SunEagle]

I am adding another 4000w onto my current system, and there is no way I want to pay a contractor an additional $4,000 to do something I can do in a couple days myself(following ALL CODES).

Another neighbor just purchased everything needed to install a 7000w system which he is VERY capable of doing himself(he used to build homes) but now he can't due to the city's personal attack.

This is why this is a big concern for me. I will be getting legal representation for this.

Thanks for the replies is seems like I might have a chance to fight this.

If the law has been recently changed you might want to check to see if there is a "start" date for the new rules.

You attorney may find something like that or maybe something concerning a grandfather clause about adding new to an existing system.

[foo1bar]

This is why this is a big concern for me. I will be getting legal representation for this.

I'd start with applying for the permit for the job you want to do.

And then ONLY if it were denied would I bother spending money on a lawyer.

And you might want to check the attitude when you apply for the permit. Maybe have your spouse do all the talking for you since this is obviously an emotional issue for you and its likely you'll say something you really shouldn't.

IF it's denied, then I would ask them *politely* to put in writing the reason it is being denied. You can tell them it's because you want to address whatever issues they have with the application.

BTW *IF* it's denied, I think going through the lawyer route is probably more time and money than getting your own certification so that you can install.

[J.P.M.]

I am adding another 4000w onto my current system, and there is no way I want to pay a contractor an additional $4,000 to do something I can do in a couple days myself(following ALL CODES).

Another neighbor just purchased everything needed to install a 7000w system which he is VERY capable of doing himself(he used to build homes) but now he can't due to the city's personal attack.

This is why this is a big concern for me. I will be getting legal representation for this.

Thanks for the replies is seems like I might have a chance to fight this.

FWIW, I'd be interested to know the results of any legal gyrations.

[jflorey2]

Can you explain? How is it that I can build a house from the ground up, every bit of it including all electrical without a contractor, but I cannot install panels on my roof.

I didn't say it made sense; laws often don't make sense. But an ironclad defense to a lawsuit is that "I was following the requirements of the law."

[jflorey2]

Well, if you were denied a permit because of this law I believe you could file a lawsuit over it.

You can file a lawsuit over anything. You could sue anyone on this board for giving bad advice, but it would likely be thrown out.

My guess is the easy way to do it and not involve the courts (and all the costs of that) would be to just wait a few months, file for the permit and most likely it would get issued.

Sure, give it a try. The worst they can do is say no.

[dougmielke]

New to solar, just put in a 29 panel Sunpower system with a very reputable contractor - Green Convergence. I am in a HOA + LADWP so there were multiple inspections.

IMO, the codes you are citing fall squarely into the "for your best interest" category. " installed and connected by a licensed photovoltaic contractor, in compliance with the National Electrical Code."

Having observed my project from start to finish, including an awesome flush-mount on S-Tile, there were a ton of reasons why DOIs are not allowed to do this.
In the near-term, you stand a much better chance of no leaks, fires, proper layout design, zero opportunities to electrocute yourself etc., etc., etc...

In the longterm, if/when you sell your home, how do support a non-licensed solar system declaration? As a prospective purchaser, my first stop is always the code / permits for the property. Solar on the roof? No permits / inspections? I will take a pass.

[treadlite]

All proper permits have been filed, and inspections done by certified contractor who actually installs solar. I already have all my contacts lined up and have used them multiple times. I have practically destroyed trees with all the paperwork I have on my install and permits.

If the owner is savvy enough to do it, then why not? I have seen some pretty sketchy installs by "certified" installers.

For many, homeowners to install solar...I would agree, not something everyone should do, but someone who knows a lot about constructions, electricity, electronics that can actually do a better job than someone "certified", then why not?

[SunEagle]

All proper permits have been filed, and inspections done by certified contractor who actually installs solar. I already have all my contacts lined up and have used them multiple times. I have practically destroyed trees with all the paperwork I have on my install and permits.

If the owner is savvy enough to do it, then why not? I have seen some pretty sketchy installs by "certified" installers.

For many, homeowners to install solar...I would agree, not something everyone should do, but someone who knows a lot about constructions, electricity, electronics that can actually do a better job than someone "certified", then why not?

Unfortunately it comes down to how the laws are written and do they protect people or do they improve the bottom line financially for the law makers.

Also how would you regulate a DIY if there isn't some type of legal control to stop them from doing an unsafe job in the first place?

[treadlite]

Also how would you regulate a DIY if there isn't some type of legal control to stop them from doing an unsafe job in the first place?

That is where the inspections come in. They do a very thorough inspection because once they sign off, they are also held liable. They won't sign off if they don't like it. As long as they city requires the inspection than they can guarantee.

Besides, you as an owner builder can DIY your entire home. Why is solar any different. If you ask me, gas is the most dangerous, but yet as the home owner, you can do whatever you want with your gas lines as long as they meet code and get inspected by someone who is licensed to do so.

[treadlite]

BTW, just an update. I have two appointments set up next week with a couple law firms. I should have a pretty good idea by the end of next week what the outcome of this looks like.

[SunEagle]

That is where the inspections come in. They do a very thorough inspection because once they sign off, they are also held liable. They won't sign off if they don't like it. As long as they city requires the inspection than they can guarantee.

Besides, you as an owner builder can DIY your entire home. Why is solar any different. If you ask me, gas is the most dangerous, but yet as the home owner, you can do whatever you want with your gas lines as long as they meet code and get inspected by someone who is licensed to do so.

Sounds like a plan but again is still comes down to someone making sure the install meets code. Only the law abiding people would follow the rules of notification and inspection.

Without any laws a lot of people would perform the DIY and not let anyone know about it so there would not be any inspections. Making the DIY totally illegal will stop some of those.

Unfortunately there is a % of people that will do whatever they want because they think they are above any laws or code restrictions. Those are the people that need to be caught and dealt with otherwise you may have all kinds of unsafe installations.

[treadlite]

That may depend on state law.

In Florida - No. (At least that's what I've seen repeated here often, and I assume is the case - I don't have a state statute to cite)

Just searching around I ran into this. It appears that in Miami "Owner Builder" can.

http://www.citynmb.com/vertical/sites/%7B7D026603-3FD1-47D7-B72B-A998702CDBDA%7D/uploads/Property_Owners_Acting_As_Their_Own_Contractor.pdf

[foo1bar]

Just searching around I ran into this. It appears that in Miami "Owner Builder" can.

http://www.citynmb.com/vertical/sites/%7B7D026603-3FD1-47D7-B72B-A998702CDBDA%7D/uploads/Property_Owners_Acting_As_Their_Own_Contractor.pdf

Interesting - SunEagle is one of the people who has said DIY isn't possible in Florida.
ex:

https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum/solar-panels-for-home/solar-panels-for-your-home/310357-diy-costs-compared-to-installers

https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum/solar/the-pros-and-cons-of-solar-energy/22564-new-guy-dealing-with-county-building-inspectors

Perhaps his information is outdated.

[SunEagle]

Interesting - SunEagle is one of the people who has said DIY isn't possible in Florida.
ex:

https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum/solar-panels-for-home/solar-panels-for-your-home/310357-diy-costs-compared-to-installers

https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum/solar/the-pros-and-cons-of-solar-energy/22564-new-guy-dealing-with-county-building-inspectors

Perhaps his information is outdated.

I imagine that some localities may have found a way around what I believe is a state law concerning solar.

Or hopefully our state is changing the law that will allow a homeowner to perform a DIY solar.

But I also believe that the document that treadlite attached was very specific for a single city and that the solar project must be under the DOE Sunshot initiative. So while there may be one avenue allowing a DIY solar install it does not mean all FL state homeowners can do it.

Again I am hopeful the law changes here so someone can perform the majority of the solar install as long as the project is done per building code (remember we get hurricanes) and the final connection is performed by a licensed electrician.

[dougmielke]

Back to the most practical aspect of this discussion. If I were buying a home and it had solar, I would search for permits associated with the job. No permits = something curious so move on.