City blocking solar install by home owner - legal?

[treadlite]

No. They are following the law.

Can you explain? How is it that I can build a house from the ground up, every bit of it including all electrical without a contractor, but I cannot install panels on my roof.

[J.P.M.]

Can you explain? How is it that I can build a house from the ground up, every bit of it including all electrical without a contractor, but I cannot install panels on my roof.

Well, if you do something in a way contrary to statute, some governmental body might feel the need to take legal action to correct what they see as an infraction. That might be one way to do it.

That's one reason why the court system exists. If you feel strongly enough, lawyer up, initiate legal action and take your chances with the legal system. Who knows - You might even prevail and get legal fees and more.

I don't see how grousing on this forum about how you feel you got screwed for getting under some bureaucrats' skin is going to change the situation.

[treadlite]

I just wanted to know if what they wrote is even legal(in Utah), and if the 2014/2015 codes actually say that you have to be licensed. If that was the case that would affect everyone at a national level. A quick search I couldn't find anything, so I came to this forum hoping someone with better knowledge about the new code. Up until last month it was 2011/2012.

[Mike90250]

city law:

2 Panels and panel systems that are designed to be tied into the utility grid shall be installed and connected by a licensed photovoltaic contractor, in compliance with the National Electrical Code.

If you can show the city your install has not compromised the roof of the house, you can install them on your own house, but the CONNECTION to the main panel has to be done by a PV contractor. city codes trump state codes.

[foo1bar]

city codes trump state codes.

No - city codes can *sometimes* impose additional restrictions.

There are many state laws that overrule/disallow city or county codes/laws.

Whether this particular city code/ordinance is enforceable or not is something you'd really want to get a lawyer's opinion on.
(assuming it mattered to you enough to spend the money - I certainly wouldn't spend the money)

If you can show the city your install has not compromised the roof of the house, you can install them on your own house,

actually the code as written says "shall be installed ..." - so even the placing of the panels would theoretically have to be installed by a licensed contractor.
(Although it'd be easy enough to claim it's not grid-tie for the initial module install)

[foo1bar]

"Can I take legal action against the city?"
No. They are following the law.

Well, if you were denied a permit because of this law I believe you could file a lawsuit over it.
My guess is the easy way to do it and not involve the courts (and all the costs of that) would be to just wait a few months, file for the permit and most likely it would get issued.

[SunEagle]

But does that apply if you are the homeowner? Usually for a business yes that is the case, but for pretty much everything at least here in utah, there isn't anything that the homeowner cannot do as long as it meats code and gets passed off by a licensed contractor.

It makes no difference. A solar pv or thermal panel system can only be installed by a contractor that has been trained and certified to perform that type of installation.

I could build my entire house but not install a solar pv system. That is the law which is a double edge sword. It keeps any person that is unqualified to perform this type of work but it also keeps those that have experience and knowledge concerning codes from also doing the work.

[Wy_White_Wolf]

I helped. I did not install as an unlicensed or licensed contractor. He is a friend and I helped. FREE no $ charge...

Even helping that way would be illegal here. Only the homeowner or licensed contractor for the type of electrical work is allowed to do the work. I wired my garage and had an electrician friend inspect it. He advised on a few changes. He could look over my shoulder in advising me on these changes, but if he so much as picked up a tool to hand to me it would have been a violation of the law.

WWW

[skipparks]

We have some resistance to self installs of solar PV systems here in Bullhead city AZ, The city requires that truss calculations for the roof the panels are going on have to be included in the paperwork for the permit. The city years ago tossed out all the house plans that have required information to save storage space, so now the home owner has to hire a AZ state certified engineer to do the calcs at a cost of $480.00. We have a lot of manufactured homes and single wide trailers that have solar panels of their roofs, plus 400 lbs heat pumps on almost every building in the city that spread the weight out on 4 trusses at about 26 lbs/sq ft. over 18 sq ft. I have 2 on my home, My solar panel array will weigh in at 600 lbs with racking over 24 trusses at 46 ft long and 5.5 ft high at 6 lbs/sq ft. The trusses that the heat pumps sit on are the same as the rest of the house, yet the city wants to know if the trusses will hold the extra weight of the PV panels, this is just a ploy to resist home owner installs, or make it as expensive as possible, meanwhile the county of Mohave doesn't require this truss calc on stick built homes, but both city and county require that a licensed electrical contractor make the actual electrical connection to the main panel and all wiring must meet NEC codes for sizing and grounding and the rest of the equipment, like safety disconnects and the like.

[solarix]

OP is under the mistaken impression that America is still the land of the free. We are going totally socialistic with the masters in charge of everything. Central control. And we are in the midst of the craziest election ever between an egotistical farce and a bought and sold greedy, globalist with a neurological illness. Get in the back of the building dept. bus with the rest of us and be a good serf.

[SunEagle]

We have some resistance to self installs of solar PV systems here in Bullhead city AZ, The city requires that truss calculations for the roof the panels are going on have to be included in the paperwork for the permit. The city years ago tossed out all the house plans that have required information to save storage space, so now the home owner has to hire a AZ state certified engineer to do the calcs at a cost of $480.00. We have a lot of manufactured homes and single wide trailers that have solar panels of their roofs, plus 400 lbs heat pumps on almost every building in the city that spread the weight out on 4 trusses at about 26 lbs/sq ft. over 18 sq ft. I have 2 on my home, My solar panel array will weigh in at 600 lbs with racking over 24 trusses at 46 ft long and 5.5 ft high at 6 lbs/sq ft. The trusses that the heat pumps sit on are the same as the rest of the house, yet the city wants to know if the trusses will hold the extra weight of the PV panels, this is just a ploy to resist home owner installs, or make it as expensive as possible, meanwhile the county of Mohave doesn't require this truss calc on stick built homes, but both city and county require that a licensed electrical contractor make the actual electrical connection to the main panel and all wiring must meet NEC codes for sizing and grounding and the rest of the equipment, like safety disconnects and the like.

It stills comes down to what each State, County, City, or AHJ decides what can be accomplished by a homeowner and what can't be. Solar pv installations is just one type of installation that any jurisdiction can write and approve a local ordinance to suit what they feel is the right thing to do.

There is no way someone can compare different solar installation laws and determine which is right or which is wrong.

[J.P.M.]

city law:


If you can show the city your install has not compromised the roof of the house, you can install them on your own house, but the CONNECTION to the main panel has to be done by a PV contractor. city codes trump state codes.

In CA, the Solar Rights Act says that, unless adjudicated for particular situations, and with some limitations, local jurisdictions may not forbid the installation of solar equipment on residences. Local and state mandated building/safety codes however, must still be followed. Some view those code conformance requirements as infringements on their right to do dangerous stuff.

[foo1bar]

Solar pv installations is just one type of installation that any jurisdiction can write and approve a local ordinance to suit what they feel is the right thing to do.

There are many places where the state laws overrule a local ordinance.

There is no way someone can compare different solar installation laws and determine which is right or which is wrong.

If you have a set of criteria to define "right" and "wrong" it is certainly possible to determine that.
For example, if you believe it is right to allow DIY jobs that are fully code compliant and inspected, then Florida's laws are wrong, and laws in CA and elsewhere are right.
Of course someone else may say "It isn't right to allow DIY installs - it takes away income from my campaign contributors" - in which case Floriday laws are right.

[SunEagle]

There are many places where the state laws overrule a local ordinance.
Trust me when I say the local authority will always win over state authority when it comes down to an AHJ making the decision.

If you have a set of criteria to define "right" and "wrong" it is certainly possible to determine that.
For example, if you believe it is right to allow DIY jobs that are fully code compliant and inspected, then Florida's laws are wrong, and laws in CA and elsewhere are right.
Of course someone else may say "It isn't right to allow DIY installs - it takes away income from my campaign contributors" - in which case Floriday laws are right.

I would like to see something in between being able to "do it all" or only have "certified" installers.

Then you would still need to have even a DIY system reviewed and approved by a; professional engineer, licensed electrician, certified contractor, etc., that knows and understands all of the latest building and electrical safety codes.

While that may keep a lot of people from doing the complete job themselves it will also make sure that all safety codes have been followed before a pv system is connected to the public grid.

There is nothing Right about someone performing a DIY and not following all of the safety codes even if the law says they can. If someone is put off by that remark they can go "f**k" themselves.

[treadlite]

I am adding another 4000w onto my current system, and there is no way I want to pay a contractor an additional $4,000 to do something I can do in a couple days myself(following ALL CODES).

Another neighbor just purchased everything needed to install a 7000w system which he is VERY capable of doing himself(he used to build homes) but now he can't due to the city's personal attack.

This is why this is a big concern for me. I will be getting legal representation for this.

Thanks for the replies is seems like I might have a chance to fight this.