Partial DIY install question in SE Pennsylvania (PECO)

[essenz]

I am trying to find some info from somebody else who is in the Peco utility market he did a grid-tie install either by themselves or via an electrician.

Let me explain the issues I have run into and where I need help.

I am not a licensed electrician, but I am extremely handy when it comes to anything mechanical/electrical. I was an electrical engineering major in college, so I definitely know how to work around panels and wiring. I do almost all my own electrical work inside my home, BUT, I'm not a lineman, so clearly I dont work in the meter area or outside connections. PS - utility feed is underground, it comes up the side of my house and terminates in a meter box 3 ft off the ground

I want to install a 20x panel enphase system, grid-tie. Seems simple enough, roof rail rack systems, connect all the panels, wiring it down the side of the house to an outside disconnect, properly ground it. Thats the easy part, and I have estimated $12,000 or so in parts/materials through a reputable online vendor. All of this work I can do myself.

The challenge is from that disconnect and beyond. First, if your not familiar with Peco, they have a crazy net meter setup. You cant simply pop out your meter and install a bidirectional. Instead, you have to have two meters, and IN meter and an OUT meter. And now on their website they even say you need a 3rd meter dedicated for the array. The application process is also very complicated. This is where I need to find an electrician who can navigate the complex meter setup/process with Peco and make all those connections.

The finding of that electrician has been tough, because grid-tie setups are tricky, most general electricians dont do it, instead you have electricians thats specialize in solar, but they dont want to work with a DIY homeowner, they want to do the whole project for $30k, most wont even return my emails.

So.... if anybody on this board is a Peco customer, and knows of or worked with an electrician that helped finish their grid-tie system, or if any electricians are reading this who are in my area (19444 ZIP), please let me know. I really want to get this project off the ground.

Thanks
John

[foo1bar]

The application process is also very complicated. This is where I need to find an electrician who can navigate the complex meter setup/process with Peco and make all those connections.

I would find someone nearby who has done solar recently, and look at how they did it. I'd ask them about their solar array, talk with them about their install, and then ask if you can see their building permit plans. And/or you can go to your building department and ask to see the plans for a specific address. I'd probably start with asking the owner, then go to the building department and you would be able to honestly say "I was talking with George about his solar install and he said I could look at his plans. His address is 123 Main St."

Then you know what the wiring will be for the meters. And then hire an electrician "I need two meter boxes installed at my project on Elm St. Do you need me to contact PECO about disconnecting power while you do the work or do you coordinate that directly with them?"

[JFinch57]

Digging into the PECO website:

(For meter out) It is PECO’s preference to have the new meter socket mounted to the right of the existing meter
socket. It is recognized that not all installations will accommodate this preference. Please consult
the Company regarding optional locations. After the installation is complete and inspected, send the inspection card to PECO. After receiving
the inspection card PECO will schedule the meter installation. PECO meter technicians will do all
meter wiring.

In the same document but talking about installation with a transformer cabinet: A 1 ½” rigid steel
conduit/nipple needs to be provided and installed to connect between the new and old meter
sockets. Conduit must enter the new and old meter socket where the knockout is provided,

I'd start with contacting PECO, ask for their engineering department, and your local electrical permit department. If they do the wiring and you just have to mount the meter socket it should be fairly straightforward. Also, not sure why you would need a separate production meter unless you have 2 arrays or 2 sources of power (wind and PV). Hopefully your permit office will work with you. In MD they want you to take a test. I got around that with my BSEE degree and a line diagram with detailed calculations.

[inetdog]

Outside PECO territory the main reason for a third production meter is for SRECs or other incentive accounting.
I hope they do not really mean on the array, since that would be a DC meter.

[JFinch57]

Outside PECO territory the main reason for a third production meter is for SRECs or other incentive accounting.
I hope they do not really mean on the array, since that would be a DC meter.

If there's only 1 generating source wouldn't the "out" utility meter be sufficient for SRECs?

[ButchDeal]

If there's only 1 generating source wouldn't the "out" utility meter be sufficient for SRECs?

no that meter would not measure full solar production but rather production - usage.

[JFinch57]

no that meter would not measure full solar production but rather production - usage.

It's a 2 meter POCO setup, one for "in" and one for "out", not using a net meter. The meter for "out" would be in series with any production SREC meter, thus the same reading.

[ButchDeal]

It's a 2 meter POCO setup, one for "in" and one for "out", not using a net meter. The meter for "out" would be in series with any production SREC meter, thus the same reading.

the two meter system would be in series but the 3rd meter would be directly attached to the inverter before the house such that you would have :

inverter -> meter 3 -> interconnect -> out meter -> in meter -> grid
                            |
                            \/
                          load

so meter 3 will not read the same as out meter

[JFinch57]

the two meter system would be in series but the 3rd meter would be directly attached to the inverter before the house such that you would have :

inverter -> meter 3 -> interconnect -> out meter -> in meter -> grid
|
\/
load

so meter 3 will not read the same as out meter

I originally read it as "parallel operation" and assumed that the load was connected to the "in" meter. Looking at the diagrams at the bottom you are correct, the "in" and "out" meters are connected in series. Seems ridiculous since net meters are pretty much the standard. The Peco page is here https://www.peco.com/CustomerService...2013-07-31.pdf

[martil22]

Hi John,
I'm in the same situation as you. I already installed my system but I don't know how to proceed with the 2nd (out) meter installation. Did you find an electrician to do this? Or PECO does the wiring and I just have to mount the meter socket?

[foo1bar]

Or PECO does the wiring and I just have to mount the meter socket?

I wouldn't expect the utility to do any wiring connections. (other than plugging/unplugging the meter)
I think that'd open them to liability they wouldn't want.

FWIW, I'd ask the utility if that requirement of an "out" meter is still needed - or if they now have switched everything to smart meters which means that both in and out get recorded automatically with just one meter.

[JFinch57]

I wouldn't expect the utility to do any wiring connections. (other than plugging/unplugging the meter)
I think that'd open them to liability they wouldn't want.

FWIW, I'd ask the utility if that requirement of an "out" meter is still needed - or if they now have switched everything to smart meters which means that both in and out get recorded automatically with just one meter.

Their documentation specifically states that they do the wiring, just have to mount identical enclosures next to each other. Agreed to check with PECO, but they could still be using smart meters that are programmed to register in one direction only. Seems very behind the times, but they are the boss!

[martil22]

Yes, I just received confirmation from PECO they don't do any wiring. I believe PECO switched to smart meters, but for solar they still require two meters setup. If no 2nd meter then they simply change out existing meter to a "Detended" meter no credit/export of KW's.

[martil22]

FYI, found electrician to install 2nd meter socket ($600) and no power for a day
PECO has "smart meters" but presently has a radio based reading signal that can only record, transmit single number (not two, what bi-directional meters requires).

[inetdog]

FYI, found electrician to install 2nd meter socket ($600) and no power for a day
PECO has "smart meters" but presently has a radio based reading signal that can only record, transmit single number (not two, what bi-directional meters requires).

Not necessarily quite that simple. You can get away with just one number IF the meter increments that number when you buy and decrements that number when you sell. But not all meters (and billing systems) are able to work with that.
If instead of net metering you have one retail rate for moments of net consumption and one wholesale rate for moments of net production then you really do have to keep track of two numbers.