Solar installation kit quote prices. I have questions..

[justcerfin]

So I'm looking to buy a solar panel kit and having an someone install it for me. To give everyone a general idea of what is all entailed here, the following is what my house is like and what I plan to have done.

I was quoted just above $14K for 27 285W solarworld panels, including Enphase M250 micro inverters, inverter cables, racking, roof hooks, nuts and bolts, delivery ect. Not included was wiring and conduit, permits. To me, this sounds like a great deal compared to some of the other quotes and I don't have any real questions here. Its all being mounted on Spanish S type cement tiles. Roofs plans for submitting to get a permit were an extra $99.

My real question is the installer quotes I have received. I received a quote for about $10K for the installation which includes permits and up to PGE connection ( I live in central CA). The other quote I received today was for basically the same thing but also included wire and conduit, permits and up to PGE connection. This was quoted just above $15K. Is it me or is this crazy. I was thinking the cost was going to be about $3-4K at the most. (PS. I'm a newb and have no idea on installation prices.) Is that a fair price or are they just being greedy. I waited 7 days to get a quote which was basically 27 panels@285W=7695KW. The company charges $2 per KW installation. 7695KW X $2 = $15,390. That price honestly seems ridiculous to me. Seems like I could hire 4 electricians @80 an hour for 2, 8 hour days for much cheaper. I looked up solar photovoltaic installer hourly rates in my area and they area about $20.81 an hour. Is the company which quoted me being greedy or I'm just way out of touch with this stuff?

Any thoughts anyone. I'm looking for ideas on how to reduce the installation price and also get this project done without burning down my house.. Any ideas/suggestions would be appreciated. Just fyi, I live near Fresno, CA. Thanks for the help..

[Naptown]

So I'm looking to buy a solar panel kit and having an someone install it for me. To give everyone a general idea of what is all entailed here, the following is what my house is like and what I plan to have done.

I was quoted just above $14K for 27 285W solarworld panels, including Enphase M250 micro inverters, inverter cables, racking, roof hooks, nuts and bolts, delivery ect. Not included was wiring and conduit, permits. To me, this sounds like a great deal compared to some of the other quotes and I don't have any real questions here. Its all being mounted on Spanish S type cement tiles. Roofs plans for submitting to get a permit were an extra $99.

My real question is the installer quotes I have received. I received a quote for about $10K for the installation which includes permits and up to PGE connection ( I live in central CA). The other quote I received today was for basically the same thing but also included wire and conduit, permits and up to PGE connection. This was quoted just above $15K. Is it me or is this crazy. I was thinking the cost was going to be about $3-4K at the most. (PS. I'm a newb and have no idea on installation prices.) Is that a fair price or are they just being greedy. I waited 7 days to get a quote which was basically 27 panels@285W=7695KW. The company charges $2 per KW installation. 7695KW X $2 = $15,390. That price honestly seems ridiculous to me. Seems like I could hire 4 electricians @80 an hour for 2, 8 hour days for much cheaper. I looked up solar photovoltaic installer hourly rates in my area and they area about $20.81 an hour. Is the company which quoted me being greedy or I'm just way out of touch with this stuff?

Any thoughts anyone. I'm looking for ideas on how to reduce the installation price and also get this project done without burning down my house.. Any ideas/suggestions would be appreciated. Just fyi, I live near Fresno, CA. Thanks for the help..

Most installers sell complete systems installed. On say your system they would stand to make 10k on the job if they sold you equipment too.
Since time is money they will spend the same amount of time doing your install as one which they supplied everything. Direct labor is obviously less than quoted. But doing your project is taking the crew away from a higher grossing job. This means they lost the additional money they would have made if they did the whole job.
If they are busy the cost to you will be high. It isn't worth it to spend a week and make 3000 on you or spend the same week and make 10000.
The numbers above are for illustration only.

[J.P.M.]

So I'm looking to buy a solar panel kit and having an someone install it for me. To give everyone a general idea of what is all entailed here, the following is what my house is like and what I plan to have done. I was quoted just above $14K for 27 285W solarworld panels, including Enphase M250 micro inverters, inverter cables, racking, roof hooks, nuts and bolts, delivery ect. Not included was wiring and conduit, permits. To me, this sounds like a great deal compared to some of the other quotes and I don't have any real questions here. Its all being mounted on Spanish S type cement tiles. Roofs plans for submitting to get a permit were an extra $99. My real question is the installer quotes I have received. I received a quote for about $10K for the installation which includes permits and up to PGE connection ( I live in central CA). The other quote I received today was for basically the same thing but also included wire and conduit, permits and up to PGE connection. This was quoted just above $15K. Is it me or is this crazy. I was thinking the cost was going to be about $3-4K at the most. (PS. I'm a newb and have no idea on installation prices.) Is that a fair price or are they just being greedy. I waited 7 days to get a quote which was basically 27 panels@285W=7695KW. The company charges $2 per KW installation. 7695KW X $2 = $15,390. That price honestly seems ridiculous to me. Seems like I could hire 4 electricians @80 an hour for 2, 8 hour days for much cheaper. I looked up solar photovoltaic installer hourly rates in my area and they area about $20.81 an hour. Is the company which quoted me being greedy or I'm just way out of touch with this stuff? Any thoughts anyone. I'm looking for ideas on how to reduce the installation price and also get this project done without burning down my house.. Any ideas/suggestions would be appreciated. Just fyi, I live near Fresno, CA. Thanks for the help..

1.) Running a business costs a good deal more than just the labor. 2.) $14K + $10K = $24K. that translates to $24000/7695W = $3.12/Watt. For what sounds like decent equipment. A decent CA price for a turnkey system might be something like $3.25 - $3.50/Watt. 3.) Most turnkey systems from reputable installers often come w/some warranty beyond what comes with the equipment. Perhaps another cost of doing business.

[justcerfin]

I wonder if there is an installer in my area that is not to busy to make $4k on an install where all he does is labor. I know they are running a business but I'm trying to save money as well. I think I'm going to end up buying the system and keep looking for an installer that could find the time to help me out. Thanks for the feedback, I do appreciate it.

[Naptown]

I wonder if there is an installer in my area that is not to busy to make $4k on an install where all he does is labor. I know they are running a business but I'm trying to save money as well. I think I'm going to end up buying the system and keep looking for an installer that could find the time to help me out. Thanks for the feedback, I do appreciate it.

Good luck with that.
The ones that might are probably not who you want installing your system
If they are good then they are busy and unlikely to take the hit on the profit level of a labor only job.
Also keep in mind if you buy the equipment and there are missing or defective parts or a warranty issue with an inverter etc those are your items and responsibility. The labor only guy isn't going to include anything other than a workmanship warranty

Caveat emptor

[sensij]

I wonder if there is an installer in my area that is not to busy to make $4k on an install where all he does is labor. I know they are running a business but I'm trying to save money as well. I think I'm going to end up buying the system and keep looking for an installer that could find the time to help me out. Thanks for the feedback, I do appreciate it.

You might have luck finding a general contractor who will work with you for $1 - $1.50 / W, but unless you really know what you are doing and can double-check the work, you might be better of sticking with a turn-key system. The mounting kit is a bunch of parts, but you will still need someone to do the actual design and figure out how it will work for *your* roof. Plans over the internet is a nice concept, but not likely to work out as well as having someone skilled actually survey your site and figure out what will be best.

National solar companies that contract out installations should be able to hire a local crew for something like $0.80 / W to $1.00 / W. If you want to invest the time to learn that business, those numbers probably represent the floor for what you might expect to pay.

[J.P.M.]

I wonder if there is an installer in my area that is not to busy to make $4k on an install where all he does is labor. I know they are running a business but I'm trying to save money as well. I think I'm going to end up buying the system and keep looking for an installer that could find the time to help me out. Thanks for the feedback, I do appreciate it.

Think like the other guy. Assuming for a minute that you know all that's involved and possible, would you do it for $4 K ? If so, it would seem part of your search will involve finding an installer who shares your opinions about doing an install for that amount. Just sayin'. Caveat Emptor.

[SunEagle]

I wonder if there is an installer in my area that is not to busy to make $4k on an install where all he does is labor. I know they are running a business but I'm trying to save money as well. I think I'm going to end up buying the system and keep looking for an installer that could find the time to help me out. Thanks for the feedback, I do appreciate it.

Installing a solar pv system is not the same as putting in sod. Do you really want to save a few thousand to end up with a roof that leaks or is turned down by the AHJ for not meeting code.

Solar installers are companies trying to make a profit to stay alive. If they employ workers they must pay for insurance and taxes on top of any over head for their business. The owners are people like you that want to make a living which involves some type of profit, so think about what you would do if you ran some type of business that employes workers and performs services that must meet building and electric codes.

Again if the sod is upside down it becomes an easy fix. If the electrical cables are installed wrong you can start a fire.

Whatever you do please make sure the installation is safe and meets code.

[justcerfin]

Think like the other guy. Assuming for a minute that you know all that's involved and possible, would you do it for $4 K ? If so, it would seem part of your search will involve finding an installer who shares your opinions about doing an install for that amount. Just sayin'. Caveat Emptor.

I know my limitations for attempting to complete a task like installing the panels and required electrical work. I only know some of what it takes from the 3 houses I volunteered at installing solar. I feel if I was more comfortable with the electrical aspect iof it, I would do it myself. And I do agree, caveat emptor. I do think there are some installers, maybe not many, who have some extra time and make an extra $4k or so when they have some down time. Let's hope one does. Again, thanks for your input. I do appreciate it.

[J.P.M.]

I know my limitations for attempting to complete a task like installing the panels and required electrical work. I only know some of what it takes from the 3 houses I volunteered at installing solar. I feel if I was more comfortable with the electrical aspect iof it, I would do it myself. And I do agree, caveat emptor. I do think there are some installers, maybe not many, who have some extra time and make an extra $4k or so when they have some down time. Let's hope one does. Again, thanks for your input. I do appreciate it.

You're welcome.

[Ashevillian]

I am facing the same thing, installers that want $1.50/w for the installation. They think they are entitled to 30% of the "system cost" as profit. To me, they are entitled to perhaps 30% for the value they bring, which is the installation which is much less. In my case they quoted the labor as 3K, but wanted 10K for profit and overhead...ridiculous.

I am a professional engineer. When we build a facility, we do not pay 30% profit to someone to procure the parts, we pay them on the value (labor usually) they bring to the game.

Designing these systems is not rocket science. The permits are not that involves. If a carpenter was building an addition for you, you would pay them a profit on the labor, not on the cost of the lumber. The argument that they have other costs is not my problem as their customer. I have to believe that this situation will change soon as more people become familiar with the subject.

I have found an electrician that will do my electrical side. I am now looking for a roofer to install the rails and panels. The argument that anyone that would do it for a reasonable price must be bad is ludicrous. Be sure to look at you options.

[Naptown]

I am facing the same thing, installers that want $1.50/w for the installation. They think they are entitled to 30% of the "system cost" as profit. To me, they are entitled to perhaps 30% for the value they bring, which is the installation which is much less. In my case they quoted the labor as 3K, but wanted 10K for profit and overhead...ridiculous.

I am a professional engineer. When we build a facility, we do not pay 30% profit to someone to procure the parts, we pay them on the value (labor usually) they bring to the game.

Designing these systems is not rocket science. The permits are not that involves. If a carpenter was building an addition for you, you would pay them a profit on the labor, not on the cost of the lumber. The argument that they have other costs is not my problem as their customer. I have to believe that this situation will change soon as more people become familiar with the subject.

I have found an electrician that will do my electrical side. I am now looking for a roofer to install the rails and panels. The argument that anyone that would do it for a reasonable price must be bad is ludicrous. Be sure to look at you options.

Au contraire monami
A contractor will mark everything up
By a percentage including the nails.
Here is the difference between commercial and residential contstruction.
Commercial they hard cost everything including all overhead items proportionate to that project.
Residential they take all overhead and use it as a percentage of their annual overhead. So all the paper clips pencils phone expense insurance and the other 100 items it takes to run a business are lumped into this.
Reality is at the end of the year they make between 6 and 8 percent.
And most don't make that.
I have been doing resi work for close to 40 years. You are confusing gross profit with actual profit. Which is much much less.

[SunEagle]

I am facing the same thing, installers that want $1.50/w for the installation. They think they are entitled to 30% of the "system cost" as profit. To me, they are entitled to perhaps 30% for the value they bring, which is the installation which is much less. In my case they quoted the labor as 3K, but wanted 10K for profit and overhead...ridiculous. I am a professional engineer. When we build a facility, we do not pay 30% profit to someone to procure the parts, we pay them on the value (labor usually) they bring to the game. Designing these systems is not rocket science. The permits are not that involves. If a carpenter was building an addition for you, you would pay them a profit on the labor, not on the cost of the lumber. The argument that they have other costs is not my problem as their customer. I have to believe that this situation will change soon as more people become familiar with the subject. I have found an electrician that will do my electrical side. I am now looking for a roofer to install the rails and panels. The argument that anyone that would do it for a reasonable price must be bad is ludicrous. Be sure to look at you options.

I am not sure what type of projects you perform the design on but I have been a Capital Project Manager/Engineer for major industrial jobs for over 30 years and on most of my projects the Contractors will mark up both material and labor costs to cover their overhead and profit. Maybe not to 30% but normally at least 15 to 20% and as high as 25% depending on how short the time constraints that are set by the customer. You could find a cheaper Contractor but based on my experience you get what you pay for. Cheap Contractors work off of a very slim profit margin so there is not much incentive for them and you end up with more headaches trying to fix the low quality installation. Sure I never hire them again but they find someone else to build for and somehow get by with the low profits and shoddy work. If the Contractor has to find, purchase and stage the parts for the job his time is worth a % markup and if you think it isn't then you have never run a crew and have to account for your time. So it is not an argument but a statement of fact that they have "other costs" because they run a business and are not just laborers you find on the street corner. If you want a good Contractor you will pay a reasonable amount of markup on every component he provides and installs. That is not going to change no matter what you believe. If you find someone that works for next to nothing they may be good but more than likely they are just scraping by and will work for any price just to keep food on the table. So I disagree with you that even looking at all my options, 9 times out of 10 I will get a higher quality job installation paying more for a Contractor then going with the bottom price.

[SunEagle]

I am not sure what type of projects you perform the design on but I have been a Capital Project Manager/Engineer for major industrial jobs for over 30 years and on most of my projects the Contractors will mark up both material and labor costs to cover their overhead and profit. Maybe not to 30% but normally at least 15 to 20% and as high as 25% depending on how short the time constraints that are set by the customer. You could find a cheaper Contractor but based on my experience you get what you pay for. Cheap Contractors work off of a very slim profit margin so there is not much incentive for them and you end up with more headaches trying to fix the low quality installation. Sure I never hire them again but they find someone else to build for and somehow get by with the low profits and shoddy work. If the Contractor has to find, purchase and stage the parts for the job his time is worth a % markup and if you think it isn't then you have never run a crew and have to account for your time. So it is not an argument but a statement of fact that they have "other costs" because they run a business and are not just laborers you find on the street corner. If you want a good Contractor you will pay a reasonable amount of markup on every component he provides and installs. That is not going to change no matter what you believe. If you find someone that works for next to nothing they may be good but more than likely they are just scraping by and will work for any price just to keep food on the table. So I disagree with you that even looking at all my options, 9 times out of 10 I will get a higher quality job installation paying more for a Contractor then going with the bottom price.

Sorry for the run on paragraph but the Editing tools and some other features are not working so I can't correct my post and put in the spaces between my paragraphs.

[Naptown]

I am not sure what type of projects you perform the design on but I have been a Capital Project Manager/Engineer for major industrial jobs for over 30 years and on most of my projects the Contractors will mark up both material and labor costs to cover their overhead and profit. Maybe not to 30% but normally at least 15 to 20% and as high as 25% depending on how short the time constraints that are set by the customer. You could find a cheaper Contractor but based on my experience you get what you pay for. Cheap Contractors work off of a very slim profit margin so there is not much incentive for them and you end up with more headaches trying to fix the low quality installation. Sure I never hire them again but they find someone else to build for and somehow get by with the low profits and shoddy work. If the Contractor has to find, purchase and stage the parts for the job his time is worth a % markup and if you think it isn't then you have never run a crew and have to account for your time. So it is not an argument but a statement of fact that they have "other costs" because they run a business and are not just laborers you find on the street corner. If you want a good Contractor you will pay a reasonable amount of markup on every component he provides and installs. That is not going to change no matter what you believe. If you find someone that works for next to nothing they may be good but more than likely they are just scraping by and will work for any price just to keep food on the table. So I disagree with you that even looking at all my options, 9 times out of 10 I will get a higher quality job installation paying more for a Contractor then going with the bottom price.

Well said
99% of people have no clue how much it costs to run a business at a SUSTAINABLE profit level.
Yes there are bottom feeders that will do a job for essentially wages.
But what happens when there is a problem.
There is an old saying in this business regarding problems.
We have an out of sight great warranty.
Translation once we are out of sight you are out of warranty.
Caveat emptor.